How To Start Drinking Alcohol Again After Years Of Sobriety And Abstinence

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Zach (00:00)
It's been an awful lonely month here without Jeremy. I've been questioning my existence.

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Jeremy (00:05)
While you've been questioning your existence, I've been questioning a lot of the core beliefs I've held for the last few years, and I found ways to challenge them.

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and to change some false beliefs. We'll talk about it next.

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Zach (00:38)
you been buddy?

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Jeremy (00:40)
Yeah, last time we met I was just about to hit the road and go on a worldwide adventure around various parts of Europe. I pretty much fell in love with Italy and I want to stay there for the rest of my life now that country was incredible. For a lot of reasons.

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And I found out later in doing some research that their life expectancy is longer than here in the West. They're a generally happier population than we are. And I saw some of the reasons why, and it's been really interesting kind of coming back to reality and my lack of routine and lack of all the structures I'd built for myself to keep myself sane and kind of comparing what I experienced there versus what I experienced here.

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Zach (01:21)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (01:22)
what I want to kind of do here is sort of unpack what I'm trying to sort out in my head because there, of course, I was largely on vacation. So it was a much more relaxed, happier lifestyle than coming back and working and trying to find time to go to the gym and all the things. Yes, I went to the gym once in a month. So that was not that didn't work out so well.

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But what I found, so here's one of the things I found most interesting. One, actually a quick teaser, I drank alcohol, more on that later. But on the food thing, I found this really interesting. The way that people eat there, vastly different than what we do here. For the most part in the morning, they have a quick espresso, maybe two, and some sort of a pastry, a delicious bakery item.

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Zach (02:07)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (02:07)
And then they have a huge lunch, like massive, with a glass or two of wine, and then maybe go back to work, and then have a really light dinner. Which is very different than what I've been doing, and very different from what I think most people do here. But the other weird thing was that the food quality in Italy, there are literally food police in Italy that go around making sure that all of the places that sell and make food are using the highest quality ingredients.

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Zach (02:14)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (02:36)
So even though I was eating tons of baked goods, lots of regular coffee, had a lot of meat, even had some wine, I felt.

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Zach (02:44)
Where'd you find regular coffee in Italy? Seriously.

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Jeremy (02:49)
Well, I mean, sorry, I mean, caffeinated, not decaf. Like, I've been... No, there's no...

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Zach (02:51)
I was gonna say, there is no regular coffee. It's all espresso, Americanos. There's no brewed coffee.

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Jeremy (02:58)
Right. Right. And a long coffee is like six ounces as opposed to our usual 29 ounces or whatever they stuff into a big gulp now. But the thing that blew me away was like, I wasn't really I wasn't paying attention to calories. I wasn't counting macros. I wasn't doing anything. I was eating real high quality ingredient foods. I felt awesome. Like

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Zach (03:05)
Exactly.

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Imagine that.

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Jeremy (03:20)
Like my body felt really good, even though I was not like obsessing over. Is this enough protein? Is this the I shouldn't have this much bread. It's too much sugar. I felt great all the time. It was so weird. And so, you know, coming home, I go to the grocery store and I'm trying to replicate some of what I saw there, you know, buying the croissants at the store for the kids to have in the morning and me too.

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Zach (03:31)
Mm -hmm.

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Hehehehe

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Jeremy (03:48)
but their grocery store croissant, I mean, it's not even the same animal. It's a completely different product. And just trying to find ways to find real food is, it's funny because I kind of thought I was until I had real food. And now I see what I'm doing and I'm like, this is still processed crap. But you don't know it when you're immersed in it. Like when you live it and there's really, unless you go out of your way,

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Zach (03:54)
yeah.

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Mm -hmm. Absolutely.

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Jeremy (04:18)
There's not a lot of obvious options for how to do it right when it comes to the food you put in your face in Western culture.

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Zach (04:24)
Absolutely. I mean, the people who write the laws and, you know, what they can advertise and what they can put in food and what they can't put in food in America or, you know, in the Western world, so different than the rest of the world. And I've experienced that, too, in Europe. It's just different. And it's a good different. And then you come back here.

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over there and it's I feel good the whole time.

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And then I come back here and eat the food here and then I like, I get like extra de -energized and extra sick and extra something. Like I don't get that same thing when I go to Florida. Like it's, it's totally different.

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Jeremy (04:57)
Mm -hmm.

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it's mind blowing to me that that we live in the kind of culture we do and we're still struggling to figure out how to safely eat. And then we wonder why we have obesity, epidemics and health problems and cancer and heart disease and diabetes running rampant when nothing on the store shelves is real.

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Zach (05:23)
Right.

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Yeah, I mean, it's the just as for one example, right? There's just wheat, right? The wheat that is in those pastries, right? In Europe, they don't allow genetically modified wheat to go into public consumption in America. They do. And. Whatever your belief system is, I don't care. There is a huge difference between the flour that goes into pasta in Europe.

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Jeremy (05:39)
Right. Right.

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Zach (05:55)
and the flour that goes into pasta in America. Huge difference because we use genetically modified wheat to produce that flour. They don't. And it's not bad for you. And what we do here, the only reason we use genetically modified wheat here is so that they took a strain of wheat that produces more, right? So you can get more out of it, but it had too thin of a stock on it. So they blended it with one that had a thicker stock on it so they could grow more of it. So to produce more.

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Jeremy (06:23)
Right. Right.

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Zach (06:24)
They're like, we'll just put these two together because, you know, we can get more out of it and feed more people and make more money on it. And we have.

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Jeremy (06:30)
There's the key right there and make more money on it. That's the difference, I think. There, the priority, and it's enforced by law enforcement officers, is it better be the best quality possible, where here it's, it better be the most profitable product possible.

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Zach (06:32)
Exactly.

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Mm -hmm.

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And it's the same thing in like corporate culture, right? The employment laws in the US are built for the company, right? To protect the company, not the individual, not the person. In America, I can fire somebody and done, gone, right? Yeah, they could sue me, but it's, you know, it's not really high risk. In Europe, it's pain in the ass to fire somebody. All the laws over there are to protect the person, not the company. And it's the same thing with the food industry over there.

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Jeremy (07:05)
Good luck.

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Yeah, so long story short, we're getting a lot of shit backwards.

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Zach (07:20)
certain countries, they do drive on the wrong side of the road. In certain countries, they say the opposite side of the road. I say the wrong side.

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Jeremy (07:23)
That is true, I was very relieved to not have to have that experience.

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Correct, correct. Yeah, by the way trains are even better there. They just got it. They got it figured out. Of course, they've been they've been around a little longer. I did. It was awesome. Yeah.

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Zach (07:37)
Absolutely. Did you get on a bullet train?

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That's so cool. It starts off so slow, you don't realize you're doing 200 miles an hour. Just walking back and forth in a train that's doing 200 miles an hour on the ground.

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Jeremy (07:46)
That's insane. Yeah.

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Right. And it doesn't look like it. I mean, you look out the window and you're like, it's a lovely field. Look at that. But, you know, don't step off the train. One of the things I experienced while on a train was a glass of wine, which is after I'd already cracked the code on starting to, I guess, test my ability to drink alcohol. And it sort of started on accident. If I'm if I'm being honest, not really, but.

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Zach (07:59)
No.

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Jeremy (08:18)
The context here was a friend of mine said when he found out we were going to Italy, he said, you have to try Grappa. Which in retrospect, I'm pretty sure he told me was booze. But when I had the opportunity and it was on the menu, it was unclear. And I was like, I remember he said I have to try this. I'm going to try it. And I was just like, if it's alcohol, so be it, right? Whatever. It's the first time I've had a sip in seven years. What's the big deal?

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Zach (08:34)
Mm -hmm.

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Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (08:40)
And so it came out and I did not enjoy it. It was, it was not a great first time experience after so long, not drinking. so, but you know, drank it and fine. But now the door was open. I'm in Italy. I've heard my entire life about how Italy is like where the best wines in the world are. So I was like, yeah, I'm going to try it. I've already, I've already broken the seal. Let's, let's try some wine. And so I found myself at the occasional lunch, having a glass, maybe two.

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Zach (08:59)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (09:10)
But it became just sort of part of what we did every day. And there was never a sense of, I never felt any sort of a buzz. I never felt any effect of it, other than it probably helped with digestion and stuff. Like there's reasons that it helps with that. But it was wild to have that experience, to drink alcohol again after, again, seven years.

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and be able to do it in moderation and to be able to just have it be a normal thing, which I've now brought home. And I think I've had maybe a glass of two or no, I've had two glasses of wine since I've been home. And in every occasion, it has been to enhance an experience I was having and not to mask my feelings. And I've had experiences where.

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Zach (09:47)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (09:59)
I want to mask the feelings. I want to run from the pain. And now that that door is open, I thought, I could do that. But I recognize I have the awareness to say, no, that's not who you are anymore. You don't do that. And I've been able to resist. That has been a pretty

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Zach (10:05)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (10:16)
realization for me to, to know and to honestly have been afraid of it for so long now of like what happens if if I try this, am I doomed? Am I going to just completely go down a dark hole? So far, no. But but you tell me this may be a slippery slope.

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Zach (10:34)
Well, I tell you that because I was in the exact same position about one year ago when I was in Europe. I was actually in Macedonia and I was on the flight there and they came by and they had, they were, you know, I was, the idea of, of trying to have a drink here and there just to see, because like you, I think it had been seven years at that point since I'd had a drop

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Jeremy (10:57)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

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Zach (10:58)
And I had a glass on the plane, like, you know, just after of... Of course, on international flights, it's free.

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Jeremy (11:03)
It's free. Who knew it was free on the plane? What a scam. I never knew this. I know I have never traveled internationally. This was new news to me.

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Zach (11:11)
Yeah, it's always free. That's why people get wasted and then go to sleep and then wake up the next day and they're like, but, no, I had, I had a glass and similarly I was like, what ha I'd been toying with it. I've been like, you know, can I have one? Can I have one here and there? Like, is it, is it, because I quit for very different reasons. I had the one.

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Jeremy (11:14)
you

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Zach (11:33)
Then I was in Macedonia for like, and it didn't, no buzz, no nothing. I just enjoyed it. And I think I probably just fell right asleep and slept through the night. and then I was there and I had a glass of wine at dinner a few nights later and like another glass of wine at some point during the week when I was there and I was like, we're gonna do this. And I came home and I was like, I'm just going to leave it at one. I had a couple of glasses here and there for a few weeks. And then I was like, you know, like I don't.

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Like I like wine, I don't mind it, but I was always a beer guy. I love the taste of beer. And the problem with beer is that it goes down fast. Wine you have to sip. Like you can't chug that. Like you can get a good glass of wine. You can make that last an hour for the most part. A beer, you could be gone in 10, 15 minutes if you're not like super busy.

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Jeremy (12:12)
Too fast, yes.

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Mm -hmm.

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five. Give me give me five.

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Zach (12:28)
So, you know, fast forward a year, like there's been a couple, there's definitely been moments over the last year and I've, I've let myself go a little bit. Like I was scared of it. I'm not as scared of it now. it is a slippery slope because my brain still remembers those days of, I don't feel good. I had a bad day. I'm depressed. Somebody said something mean to me. I'm sad or whatever it is, like subconsciously. And I would go to the store and get a beer and sit on the couch and be like,

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and la la la la la la la la gone, right? Your brain still remembers that. And you're absolutely right. Like there's been, there's been moments. And I have to say, I slipped once where I like stopped at, you know, the store afterwards, got a beer, went home and drank it. And then after I drank it, I was like, shit, I just masked my feelings. and I realized it and.

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Jeremy (12:59)
Right.

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Mm -hmm.

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Mm -hmm.

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Zach (13:23)
did a little self -correcting, this and that. So it is a very slippery slope. How, I will say though, like going seven years without drinking has really taught me, really taught me the tools to manage my feelings and my emotions and my, all of the things without it. So to your point, it is an enhancement for me. I will have a beer or two when I'm golfing. I will have a beer or two when I'm out with friends. I even had a day where we,

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We showed up to watch football at one o 'clock and we sat there for about eight hours. And I limited myself to, you know, a drink an hour to let it like process through me. So I never got drunk, but like I had eight beers while I was there and I was a little hung over the next day, but I never got like I, at any point I could have like walked out and driven home. That's it. Like I, I nursed

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Jeremy (14:06)
Wow.

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Zach (14:14)
But yes, it is a slippery slope because many, many, many times I've been like, there's the store right there. I don't feel good. I'm hurting and I have all these tools and techniques to go manage it, but I could just go drink a beer.

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Jeremy (14:22)
Yeah.

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Right. That's that's the shorter, easier path, right? Like just pour a little booze on it and everything feels great.

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Zach (14:32)
Totally is but this is the whole thing like we we were on another show yesterday And we talked about this It is you're gonna suffer the pain. What is it the the pain of discipline or the pain of regret? You know going for the beer. Yeah, it's easy But it's regret or you can have discipline you can deal with it in the ways that you've learned how to do it. So Am I saying go drink beer? No or alcohol? I?

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Absolutely not. Not saying that at all. If you can't control it, if you have a problem, don't touch it. I think you and I quit for very, very different reasons. We were probably both using it more than we should have to like combat these demons. But I don't think either one of us had like that problem. But we were on the path.

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Jeremy (15:08)
Mm -hmm.

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Mm -hmm.

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No.

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And I think I think I had I say that I say this questioning it even as it comes out of my mouth, but I think I had more of a problem than I realized because it took so long to learn how to live without it. It took like two years to really be able to drive by a brewery without going like, let's pop in there real quick for a drink. It took two years to.

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Feel feelings and be okay with it enough to move forward. So yes, I definitely coped with my feelings in that way. Do I need to go to AA meetings? No, I don't think so. But it was shocking to come off of it and realize how much of a crutch it was in my life. Not only for, you know.

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these feelings hurt and I don't want to deal with them, but I have to be around other people now. I better put on the mask. I better get into character. And that's one of the things that I have to really be careful with now is if I am going to continue down this road, it is very tempting to be like, now I can go to a party because I can have a glass of wine or two.

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Zach (16:19)
Mm -hmm. Yep.

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Jeremy (16:32)
But I don't want that to be like, if I'm going to do that, I'm going to need to set rules in place where it's like, I better be there for an hour first or something because I don't want to fall into the trap of in order to engage with other human beings, I need to have alcohol in my body because that was the default before for most of my life.

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Zach (16:48)
Yeah, absolutely. And I still show up to things and I'll usually like get a Diet Coke or water first and drink that and then I can have one. And then if I'm having more than one, it's always like a water in between or something like that. Spread it out. I have the rules in place because I don't want to let myself go because I've seen what it did to me in the past. To your point, like it was definitely a crutch and I've learned to live without it. And I know that if.

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I was at any point in time, I know that if I started to get worried and I was like, I think this is creeping back in. I know how to live without it. I don't need it. And that doesn't scare me the way it used to. Do you, do you, do you remember that? Like, I remember when I decided to stop, I was scared because I was like, how the fuck am I going to live without this?

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Jeremy (17:26)
Yep. Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah. yeah.

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I didn't, I literally had no idea who I was without it. So much of the last, you know, the previous decade plus of my life was the character on shows that drank beer, right? Like I would go on these other podcasts and these other, these other, you know, game shows to drink beer and be the funny guy and crack fart jokes and whatever. I literally didn't know who I was without it. And so when it went away,

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Zach (18:03)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (18:05)
my identity went away. And it you know, when and so when you came to me with this, like, hey, let's do a wellness podcast, like, I barely know who the hell I am. How the hell am I going to tell anybody else how to find who they are? It was that's a terrifying time. And and I remember when you said a year ago, when you, you know, went on that trip and had a few drinks, I was scared for you. I was like, man, like, I was in I was projecting all of my crap onto you. And just being like, I don't know, man, that seems like a bad idea for you. I mean, me, but for you, you really shouldn't do that. I mean, I

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Zach (18:07)
Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (18:35)
shouldn't but you really shouldn't do that. That was I was worried for you. And so you know, once again, here we are. Hey, Zach, turns out you can drink alcohol once in a while. Do you know that?

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But I think the thing that I'm still sort of kind of trying to land in after this experience in other cultures is not only what role alcohol now plays in my life, if any, if I decide to keep going with this, but in sort of questioning that belief, all these other beliefs that I've built up around how much I need to exercise, how much protein I need to eat,

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All these systems that I built that I rely on to keep me sane. I didn't have them for the last month and I was still fine. And so I'm not saying like to hell with the gym because I know I feel better when I go And I know that that I can be compassionate with myself when I don't go if I miss a day or whatever like OK no big deal I'm not going to beat myself up it just didn't work out today. But there's there's something there's something sort of.

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Zach (19:21)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (19:41)
building in my brain that balances this a little bit more relaxed, a little bit happier, a little bit more easy going with the structure and the discipline that I've been trying to build in my life back home.

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Zach (19:53)
Mm -hmm.

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Jeremy (19:53)
And I don't know what that looks like yet. So it's a really strange place to be in where it's like trying to find a way to be OK with having a pastry in the morning and not worrying about, my, I'm going to undo everything I did in the gym yesterday. There's a balance to it that I'm trying to now apply to my life that I think in the end, hopefully, will lead to an even happier version of me.

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Zach (20:07)
Mm -hmm.

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Yeah, it's always tough to come back from those. I mean, especially the extended trip. You guys were gone for a long time. You know, I, I've. You know, when I do like at least two weeks away, you know, coming back, it is really quite difficult to get back into the routine and you quickly find out that some of the things that you were doing. We're only there because they were masked by the success of other things, right? Like they weren't accurate.

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Jeremy (20:21)
Yeah.

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Mm -hmm.

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Mm. Say more about that.

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Zach (20:44)
Like they weren't actually working for you so much. Yet other things that you were doing were compensating for it. And it was kind of hiding in there of, you know, that's not good for you. Or it was neutral or something like that. Whereas, you know, you can write, you can have a pastry in the morning and continue on with your day and be totally fine instead of fasting until one o 'clock in the afternoon. And hey, look, everything still works. So.

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Jeremy (20:46)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Right. Yeah. And I also need to be careful to not go, hey, look, I lived like this for a month and nothing happened versus look, I lived like this for 47 years before that and have all this other evidence. I don't want to weigh both equally. But when I look at the data of the people that live there like this, live better and longer.

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Zach (21:26)
Yeah.

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Jeremy (21:34)
Maybe there's something to it. Maybe there's pieces of it that I can add to my little puzzle in my little toolbox to try and keep things moving forward.

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Zach (21:41)
Right? Or you're just gonna country hop. US to Canada, Canada to Italy. And then who knows? You'll be all over the place.

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Jeremy (21:44)
Or just, yeah. Yeah.

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Zach (21:52)
Well, I'm glad to have you back and have you on the mic and have us recording these. I have been getting back into my routine since we last talked and this is for another show, but I've been struggling myself.

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Jeremy (22:07)
Yeah, I think your text and this may be the next episode. I think the last text I got from you was it's been a fucking mess. So I'm looking forward to finding out more about what's been a fucking mess and what we can do to clean that mess up.

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Zach (22:18)
Yeah, it went a little bit below fit mess. It's a fucking mess. Because it's a very fine line between the two.

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Jeremy (22:22)
It is a fine line. We'll find out more about that on the next episode. Thanks so much for listening to this one. If you've gotten any value out of it and you know someone else who may benefit from it, please share this episode with them today to help us reach our mission of helping as many people like us as possible. You're the key to doing that. Thank you so much for listening. We will be back next week at thefitmass .com.