How to Overcome Stigma and Get Help for Depression

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Ever wondered how it would feel to flip a switch and instantly cure severe depression?

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that affects millions, often silently destroying lives due to stigma and misunderstanding.

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Today, you'll learn more about a groundbreaking treatment that offers hope.

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why societal attitudes toward mental illness are deadly, and gain practical insights on
supporting those struggling with depression.

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Keep listening to hear John Nelson's incredible journey from suicidal despair to remission
through deep brain stimulation and learn how you can help save lives by changing your own

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perspective on mental illness.

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Hi, thanks so much for being there.

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As you just heard in the intro, depression is something I've lived with most of my life.

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My guest today can say the same thing.

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For years, John Nelson battled serious mental illness and depressive disorder, trying
every treatment he could find, none of which offered significant relief.

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than 20 year career in biopharmaceutical communications, John found himself struggling
with the very conditions he was working so hard to address.

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But a couple of years ago, John took a bold step that would change his life.

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He underwent a clinical trial for deep brain stimulation, a procedure that brought him to
a place of remission.

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This surgery not only improved John's personal life, but also ignited a passionate
mission.

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John has shifted his focus to what he calls pulverizing the stigma surrounding mental
illness.

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Today, John's going to share his experiences and his insights into mental health treatment
and research and his vision for a world free.

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from the stigma of mental illness.

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What does life look like for you today?

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Are you are you well?

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Have you beaten your mental illness battles?

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So I had the surgery August 22nd, 22.

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So I'm coming up on my two year anniversary very shortly.

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And the moment I had the surgery, they turned on the device and I was instantaneously in
remission of depression, instantaneously.

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So I went from the day before the surgery in the 10 years prior, pretty much every day
wanting to die.

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and feeling the physical exhaustion and debilitating aspects of this disease constantly.

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had blood literally circulating my body and in that blood circulating my body was
essentially feelings of death constantly.

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And so I go from that to an instantaneous flip of the switch and I'm cured.

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And it still to this day blows me away.

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after going through every single gold standard treatment for this maniacal condition of
major depressive disorder.

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And all I have is an electrical deficiency.

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That's it.

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I am 100 % on a bonus life.

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I have, I need constant electricity to survive.

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100%, that's my medicine.

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I am proof that this is a brain disease and I am proof that the societal stigma

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of mental illness is completely moronic, completely deadly.

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And if that doesn't change, there's going to continue to be millions of people who die
because of the absurdity and ignorance of society.

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So I understand you were diagnosed in 2010, is that right?

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Around then?

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then.

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We had just moved back from San Francisco.

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I had two kids and we made the move back to the East Coast and I just started getting low.

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know, low -ness being, you know, my confidence was going a little bit.

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My self -esteem was definitely going.

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I didn't want to be in pictures.

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And then that started the sleeping, you know, the sleeping, the naps two or three times a
day.

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that progressed into a phenomenal day being for me at the end, you know, only sleeping 16
hours and only having two naps, you know, before the end of the day.

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So that was probably my primary symptom initially.

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And then massive self -medicating, you know, I one of the challenges when you feel like
dying every single day and you're also that's being exacerbated by society, putting

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judgment and shame and ostracizing on you.

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You know self -medicating is an easy very very simple thing to do because you don't feel
like dying for a hot second and the current treatments don't didn't work and so you know

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that that progresses then the suicidal ideation then the multiple treatment facilities and
you know every single medical intervention you can get and You know and then ultimately to

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be lucky enough to be saved by a clinical trial

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is still mesmerizing to me.

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I feel like the most fortunate, unfortunate person ever because I was to be able to do
this.

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And the advancements of technology hopefully will be able to bring this to the masses
sooner than later.

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So yeah, let's talk about that.

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I also, I want to know more about the technology behind this, because it is fascinating,
but I also want people to understand what it was.

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I mean, you've described just deep sleep, suicidal ideation, all those things, but like,
was that constant?

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Was that your soundtrack?

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Was that just the way you always lived?

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Or were you able to find some moments of light that sort of hid the darkness for a while?

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I'm the exact person that people do not think suffers from mental illness.

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was extremely extroverted.

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I'm the middle child.

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I'm extremely sensitive.

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I was succeeding very well professionally.

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I ended up at the peak of my illness.

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was proactively being promoted to president of my ad agency.

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So I was standard the exact opposite of what people anticipate or assume that mental
illness looks like.

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That's one of the scariest parts about

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Society is understanding that this could be absolutely anybody I needed to provide for my
family and so that's that's what kind of kept me going and then the other thing for it too

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in regards to that was I was confident in my ability to deliver at work and so when you
feel Horrible all the time, but you know, you're good at something like that was a relief

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for me That was like a relief factor and you know, have this extremely vivid memory in my
mind, which was

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You know, in advertising, it's all pitching.

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You pitch, you pitch, you win a base of business and you're psyched and then you manage
that business.

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And so we want a big piece of business.

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And as the head of the agency, you typically get up, you pop a bottle of champagne and you
toast everybody.

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Way to go.

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Kick ass guys.

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We did it.

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Right.

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And, know, I'm the guy doing that.

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And then I'm getting in my car and I'm driving home and I'm literally analyzing every
single tree that I see on my ride home to slam my car into it.

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Like which one could I slam my car into to die the quickest?

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Which one could I do it where it looks like I actually swerved to hit a deer, to not hit a
deer and I died?

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How can I do this where it's an accident so that my family gets life insurance and my kids
never, daddy died of an accident and my wife, you know, and I don't have to struggle

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anymore, right?

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Like I'm out of this misery.

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And so I was consumed with that.

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I was consumed with the euphoria of how do I die?

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How do I die?

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But how do I die and also be able to take care of my family?

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And so one of the things that I've noticed while I've been talking about this is people
that have died by suicide, I am not better than any of them at all.

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Like they're the strongest people that I've ever met in my life or ever known.

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I just happened to be, if 10 is death, I was at a 9 .9.

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I had one tiny connection that was still holding me to this worth, which was my kids going
back to school.

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after my funeral and being ostracized and the stigma that I felt for years being traced
onto them.

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I still had that one tiny connection which kept me here.

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And so the aspects of what was it like, I I was consumed every single day with constant
suicidal ideation, so much so that I could tell you, I thought to the point of, I wanna go

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to the state next door.

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I want to do it in a place where medical, emergency folks can find me because they're used
to dealing with death more than a normal person.

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I don't want to traumatize somebody else.

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I don't want to be in a scenario where my kids can go by and my family has to go by and
revisit it.

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Every single aspect that you could imagine, I thought through to the, mean, in like a
humanity way, right?

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Like I was that euphoric to die.

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And that's what the disease does.

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And so that's the thing that people don't understand.

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When I hear people say, they're the cowardly act, or, you know, I can't believe they did
that to their family.

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In its most severe form, serious mental illness is a terminal illness.

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It's that straightforward.

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So when you know somebody who gets ALS, it's awful, right?

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You feel fricking horrible for them.

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Pancreatic cancer, worst thing in the entire world, right?

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Awful.

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It's the same exact thing with serious mental illness at its most severe level.

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The entire goal of this disease is to murder you.

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The entire goal of ALS is to murder you.

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It's the exact same thing, except society doesn't understand it.

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Society doesn't accept it.

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Society doesn't understand the science behind cancer, majority of it, but they know when
somebody tells you they have cancer that it sucks and that they want to give you a hug and

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they want to take care of your ass, right?

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That's what society does and that's exactly what they should do.

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The problem is is they don't accept mental illness and so that's why everybody dies.

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You mentioned the, know, when people call the, the successful suicide an act of cowardice.

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I almost think it's the opposite because there have been times, you know, many as someone
who's lived with depression my whole life where fear of not being successful is the only

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thing that stopped me.

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Like I, there's multiple times when I've thought the worst case scenario, if I pulled this
off or if I attempt this is that I will not be successful and end up worse, you know,

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physically, mentally, I will do more damage.

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and have to live with that in addition to this pain.

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Like that fear is, that's the cowardice, you know, that I think that people ignore.

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They're not aware of how much people have to play this out in their heads over and over
again.

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But that fear has saved my life on multiple occasions.

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I so value hearing that because it's such an amazing perspective to think about and to
analyze because I look at it as, and I try to tell people, it's the same thing of you have

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a kid whose dad died of pancreatic cancer and everybody is sad for him and everybody is
sad for the family and there's 5K runs and they're bringing meals over forever, right?

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And it's just the exact opposite.

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It's the exact opposite with mental illness.

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know, the fact of, you know, imagine somebody sitting on top of a person getting
chemotherapy all decrepit and them just talking shit behind them being like, what the fuck

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do they have to be sick for?

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Snap out of it.

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Like, what are you doing?

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Like, dude, just pull up your bootstraps, right?

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Like, make it happen.

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That would be, you would be the worst person in the entire planet, right?

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That's what we get every day.

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That's point of entry.

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That's absurd.

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And so when you sit there and you think about, you have this massive public health crisis
directly in front of all of our faces, massive.

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They couldn't have a bigger public health crisis.

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have average person waits 10 years with depression to get treatment because of the stigma,
right?

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10 years.

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So 10 years society is making everybody suffer.

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And then you think of

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Number one death for gentlemen, for men under 50, suicide.

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Number one reason for suicide, depression.

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Number one global reason for disability, depression.

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This is the most simplistic issue that is out there.

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And you do not need billions of dollars from consultants to fix this problem.

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You don't.

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All you need is two, absolutely two things, which is be empathetic if somebody tells you
they're suffering.

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treat it like you would with every other disease that's out there that you feel bad for.

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And you just hug them and you say, you're sorry.

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I'm so sorry you're going through this.

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And then guess what?

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The second shocking thing that you have to do is just be kind, right?

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Don't ask people what you can do.

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Bring them over a fricking meal.

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Like what would you do if somebody has cancer?

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They're lined up out the fricking wazoo to bring you meals and to drive your ass to chemo
and to make things happen.

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Do one tenth of that for mental illness.

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and you will save millions of lives.

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No joke.

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And so, show empathy, be kind.

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That's it.

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And we've saved millions of lives.

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I get asked this all the time.

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I'm curious what your answer is.

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What is it that prevents guys, from getting help?

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What is it about the stigma?

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What is the roadblock for us?

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what society has created on what a man should be, which is macho, which is tough, which is
not talking about your feelings.

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It's moronic.

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It's the same, it's just the societal norm.

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You know, there's societal norms that it's okay, I mean, as an analogy of like the
stupidity of certain societal norms.

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It's okay to go get completely hammered all day long at a sporting event and come home
completely schnockered and sleep your face off and be hung over the whole day.

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Like that's normal, but it's not normal for the two of us to sit on your back porch and
smoke a joint, right?

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Like, what are we talking about?

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Like how is this our world?

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That doesn't make any sense, right?

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But that's what we've been taught is what's wrong and what's right.

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It's the same shit here.

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It's the same exact thing.

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Like the fact that

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The fact that we as a sex of being men have to act that way in order to fit into societal
norm, it's stupid.

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It's wrong, and that's another perfect reason on why people die, 100%.

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And I can already see the comments on the social media clip of this where it's like, come
on, bro, man up.

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It's inevitable.

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It always happens when I post these things.

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What's your problem, bro?

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Well, here's my answer to every single one of those people.

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And first off, come on and debate my ass.

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Like, come on with you and I and let's have a conversation.

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And my exact answer to those people who say that is you are 100 percent accomplice to
murder.

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You are the reason why everybody dies because of your small minded brain.

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100 percent.

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You are absolutely factually incorrect and you are responsible for killing people.

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That's the reality and prove me wrong.

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There's no other way to prove me wrong.

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I'm 100 % accurate with that.

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And so the problem with people is they don't like to hear reality.

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I'm completely fine with telling you exactly reality.

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I in general, as a human being, I'm an extremely nice person.

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I'm a kind person.

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I'm a middle child.

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I literally, like I said, I'm literally driven by kindness.

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I also can't stand stupidity.

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And I enjoy tremendously telling people when they're stupid, because that will make them
not like me, but that will also make them think differently.

218
00:15:23,687 --> 00:15:26,250
And that will hopefully make them change their perspectives.

219
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:30,433
And that will hopefully make them not be ignorant enough to kill people.

220
00:15:31,144 --> 00:15:32,145
Absolutely.

221
00:15:32,145 --> 00:15:39,391
You have tried a number of things before eventually landing on deep brain stimulation to
win this battle.

222
00:15:39,391 --> 00:15:41,513
Tell me a little bit about those those attempts.

223
00:15:41,513 --> 00:15:47,441
What what didn't work, what the results were and how this ultimately literally flipped the
switch that turned things around.

224
00:15:47,441 --> 00:15:48,581
Thank you.

225
00:15:48,581 --> 00:15:54,721
So over 10 different medications, you start with all your standard antidepressants to go.

226
00:15:54,721 --> 00:15:57,491
You boost with some other aspects.

227
00:15:57,491 --> 00:15:59,501
Let's boost the antidepressant.

228
00:15:59,501 --> 00:16:00,801
Nothing worked.

229
00:16:00,801 --> 00:16:01,561
Nothing.

230
00:16:01,561 --> 00:16:05,611
I went to two residential treatment facilities for 30 days.

231
00:16:05,611 --> 00:16:08,041
I went to three partial hospitalization plans.

232
00:16:08,041 --> 00:16:10,881
I went to three intensive outpatient programs.

233
00:16:10,881 --> 00:16:12,457
I went to, I did

234
00:16:12,457 --> 00:16:18,317
Transcranial magnetic stimulation, which is kind of a new advancement to try to treat
depression.

235
00:16:18,317 --> 00:16:20,047
That's 36 separate times.

236
00:16:20,047 --> 00:16:26,767
I had to go to a psychiatrist's office, sit in a chair for 45 minutes, and our amazing
healthcare system that we had wouldn't cover it.

237
00:16:26,767 --> 00:16:34,617
I had to hope they would cover it, so I had to put $495 every single time on my credit
card, and hopefully I'd hope that I get reimbursed on the back end.

238
00:16:34,617 --> 00:16:42,217
That's pretty hard to medically get yourself healed when you're completely worried about
financially stressing your family out.

239
00:16:42,217 --> 00:16:46,717
That's the reality of mental illness in the greatest country in America, in the world.

240
00:16:46,717 --> 00:16:55,237
And then I did 11 different sessions of electroconvulsive therapy, which is an ECT, which
is also known as shock therapy.

241
00:16:55,237 --> 00:17:04,697
So not only am I and millions of other people diagnosed with this horrific disease that we
didn't ask for and were labeled and shamed, I now am doing a therapy that's the gold

242
00:17:04,697 --> 00:17:08,457
standard treatment for major depressive disorder, electroconvulsive therapy.

243
00:17:08,457 --> 00:17:11,249
And you can't get a more stigmatized therapy than that.

244
00:17:11,249 --> 00:17:17,242
I certainly am not having people lined up out the door trying to take me down to ECT.

245
00:17:17,242 --> 00:17:18,562
It's the exact opposite.

246
00:17:18,562 --> 00:17:20,853
People are like, my God, they're crazy, right?

247
00:17:20,853 --> 00:17:22,094
That's what we get.

248
00:17:22,094 --> 00:17:23,935
That's what kills people.

249
00:17:23,935 --> 00:17:32,018
And the fact that I have the opportunity to go and do this surgery, I get asked a lot,
were you scared that you're getting brain surgery?

250
00:17:32,018 --> 00:17:33,959
I couldn't have given a shit.

251
00:17:33,959 --> 00:17:38,499
It was like I was literally walking into my PCP's office for a physical.

252
00:17:38,499 --> 00:17:42,863
because the worst thing that could happen to me is I died, which was awesome.

253
00:17:42,863 --> 00:17:44,114
I wanted to die.

254
00:17:44,114 --> 00:17:46,877
And so I was like, this is great.

255
00:17:46,877 --> 00:17:48,778
know, was like, first off, it's not going to work.

256
00:17:48,778 --> 00:17:50,970
Second off, if I die, hell yeah.

257
00:17:50,970 --> 00:17:53,402
Now my family gets life insurance, right?

258
00:17:53,402 --> 00:17:55,254
My, my, it's everything that I wanted.

259
00:17:55,254 --> 00:17:57,756
You know, my kids are, everybody feels bad for my kids.

260
00:17:57,756 --> 00:17:59,767
They don't label and blame them.

261
00:17:59,948 --> 00:18:01,189
Same thing with my wife.

262
00:18:01,189 --> 00:18:06,121
And, you know, so I, I, so I do this surgery and I come out on the other end and I'm
totally fine.

263
00:18:06,121 --> 00:18:07,921
And I didn't expect it.

264
00:18:07,921 --> 00:18:12,141
And to be fine so quickly, I was blown away.

265
00:18:12,141 --> 00:18:19,041
And so I still live, I'm two years, August 22nd, I still live absolutely in fear that it's
gonna stop working.

266
00:18:19,041 --> 00:18:22,741
And in my clinical trial, six months in, they turned it off for a week.

267
00:18:22,741 --> 00:18:25,221
And that's just part of the clinical trial protocol.

268
00:18:25,221 --> 00:18:33,383
And five days in, after not having the constant electrical pulses to my brain, I was
completely ravaged by the disease, 100 % ravaged.

269
00:18:33,383 --> 00:18:40,860
And so it didn't mess with my mind, but my entire physicalness of my body and my death
circulating through me was immediately back.

270
00:18:40,860 --> 00:18:42,211
And so I freak.

271
00:18:42,211 --> 00:18:47,966
I freak out that, gosh, if this doesn't work, I won't be able to survive.

272
00:18:47,966 --> 00:18:56,745
so when I think about, let me give you an example of the severity of these conditions that
the stupidity of society judges and labels us for.

273
00:18:56,745 --> 00:19:00,166
So I have four people that I've met now with the same exact procedure I did.

274
00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:02,537
So this is a rare disease of rare disease communities.

275
00:19:02,537 --> 00:19:08,588
I mean, there's less than a hundred in the United States, if not less than that, who've
also had the same procedure I did.

276
00:19:08,588 --> 00:19:16,031
And I said to them the other day, I started a support group for us because that's the only
way you can get things done in mental illness is to do shit yourself.

277
00:19:16,031 --> 00:19:21,452
And so I start the support group and I say to everybody on our last call, I said, I feel
really bad.

278
00:19:21,452 --> 00:19:23,573
know, like I'm in remission.

279
00:19:23,573 --> 00:19:25,233
I'm not sick.

280
00:19:25,257 --> 00:19:29,637
And I'm so focused on the fact that if this comes back, I won't be able to survive.

281
00:19:29,637 --> 00:19:35,077
And my kids will be old enough by that point that they'll understand I fought as hard as I
could and I had to peace out, right?

282
00:19:35,077 --> 00:19:36,337
I couldn't do it.

283
00:19:36,337 --> 00:19:40,737
And every single one of them looked at me and said, I couldn't live either.

284
00:19:40,737 --> 00:19:42,717
I 100 % agree with you.

285
00:19:42,717 --> 00:19:44,497
That's what this is like.

286
00:19:44,497 --> 00:19:51,961
And so, you know, when I'm sitting there and so it is amazing to feel like this, but
there's constant fear at the same time.

287
00:19:51,961 --> 00:19:56,924
And so that also is probably another reason why I'm so fired up is, you know, I don't know
how long I have.

288
00:19:56,924 --> 00:19:57,965
I hope I have a long time.

289
00:19:57,965 --> 00:20:02,088
I hope I have forever, but you know, I'm going to make the most of it while I can.

290
00:20:02,088 --> 00:20:14,326
And, know, something that happened to me after this surgery that proves the pre and post
of it and the physicalness of it is I did some stuff before and after, like podcast type

291
00:20:14,326 --> 00:20:14,736
stuff.

292
00:20:14,736 --> 00:20:16,398
My voice is different.

293
00:20:16,398 --> 00:20:17,878
My voice is back to normal.

294
00:20:17,878 --> 00:20:19,820
My face doesn't droop.

295
00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:21,885
My skin complexion is different.

296
00:20:21,885 --> 00:20:26,128
I had a tattoo that I put on a huge tree being out in nature, released symptoms of
depression.

297
00:20:26,128 --> 00:20:27,969
I did that when I was getting ECT.

298
00:20:27,969 --> 00:20:28,790
I didn't feel it.

299
00:20:28,790 --> 00:20:30,751
It was four days that they took to put it on.

300
00:20:30,751 --> 00:20:31,572
I didn't feel it.

301
00:20:31,572 --> 00:20:32,462
I was like, whatever.

302
00:20:32,462 --> 00:20:33,123
It wasn't pleasant.

303
00:20:33,123 --> 00:20:34,274
It wasn't unpleasant.

304
00:20:34,274 --> 00:20:35,774
I went back after the surgery.

305
00:20:35,774 --> 00:20:38,286
had to them stop multiple times because I could feel again.

306
00:20:38,286 --> 00:20:44,601
I could actually literally feel physical pain because the pain was just ravaged me in
every other way, right?

307
00:20:44,601 --> 00:20:46,342
I'm six weeks after the surgery.

308
00:20:46,342 --> 00:20:48,953
Every day I wake up, I'm like, dude, this is whack.

309
00:20:48,953 --> 00:20:51,685
Like how do I not feel horrible?

310
00:20:51,719 --> 00:20:55,012
And I woke up one day and I woke up and I was sad.

311
00:20:55,313 --> 00:20:57,795
And I completely plummeted.

312
00:20:57,795 --> 00:20:59,326
I was immediately overeating.

313
00:20:59,326 --> 00:21:01,759
I was immediately oversleeping.

314
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:02,980
I was lying.

315
00:21:02,980 --> 00:21:06,363
know, had my wife was like, hey, we gotta go to our son's school thing.

316
00:21:06,363 --> 00:21:08,245
I was like, I can't go, I have a conflict, right?

317
00:21:08,245 --> 00:21:10,417
Immediately, I'm back into the behavior.

318
00:21:10,417 --> 00:21:14,321
And I call my clinical trial team and I'm like, did you guys turn this off?

319
00:21:14,321 --> 00:21:15,102
Like, what's going on?

320
00:21:15,102 --> 00:21:16,673
Like, I don't feel well.

321
00:21:16,867 --> 00:21:25,961
And what they told me was a very eye -opening thing for me to try to understand and
explain to society, which is all you're dealing with is the normal human emotion of

322
00:21:25,961 --> 00:21:26,681
sadness.

323
00:21:26,681 --> 00:21:29,882
You're going to have sadness, anger, happiness for the rest of your life.

324
00:21:29,882 --> 00:21:33,464
And that's the cycle of life is they come in your body and they leave your body.

325
00:21:33,464 --> 00:21:42,297
And that was a big epiphany for me because I was like, okay, so for the majority of
America and the majority of the world that doesn't understand this, this is the simplest

326
00:21:42,297 --> 00:21:43,588
way to think about it.

327
00:21:43,588 --> 00:21:46,989
Every single person in this planet has been sad.

328
00:21:47,209 --> 00:21:48,279
Everybody, right?

329
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:48,979
That happens.

330
00:21:48,979 --> 00:21:51,149
Maybe you wake up sad and then in afternoon you're not, right?

331
00:21:51,149 --> 00:21:52,529
Maybe you're sad for a couple of days.

332
00:21:52,529 --> 00:21:58,369
But on a zero to 10 scale, 10 being the most severe, I'd say a normal sadness is about a
three, right?

333
00:21:58,369 --> 00:22:03,328
And then maybe in the afternoon you go out, you do a walk with your kids, you're back and
you're in a good spot and it's gone.

334
00:22:03,328 --> 00:22:11,429
So the disease of depression is anywhere between a five and a 10, 10 being death, and it
never leaves your body, ever.

335
00:22:11,429 --> 00:22:12,489
Doesn't leave.

336
00:22:12,489 --> 00:22:15,015
That's what it's like to live with this condition.

337
00:22:15,015 --> 00:22:19,511
So you add that on, plus the stupidity of society judging you, people die.

338
00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:26,115
My experience, not anywhere near as severe as yours, it certainly is the kind of thing
that would come in waves.

339
00:22:26,115 --> 00:22:34,993
I could sort of function, but I was always either somewhere between just kind of meh and
just like in a dark room, don't bother me.

340
00:22:34,993 --> 00:22:37,385
There's no point in me breathing.

341
00:22:37,385 --> 00:22:40,078
Don't even come in and exchange thoughts.

342
00:22:40,078 --> 00:22:41,049
So that would come and go.

343
00:22:41,049 --> 00:22:42,640
And throughout my life,

344
00:22:42,692 --> 00:22:45,473
That fear of is it going to hit tomorrow?

345
00:22:45,473 --> 00:22:46,594
Is it going to hit today?

346
00:22:46,594 --> 00:22:53,587
Held me back from trying to put myself out there, go for this job, go for that promotion,
because I always thought, what if I can't perform?

347
00:22:53,587 --> 00:22:55,638
What if I what if that hits me one day?

348
00:22:55,638 --> 00:22:56,758
Terrified.

349
00:22:56,758 --> 00:23:02,851
I'm literally now in the longest stretch of my life without a major depressive major
depressive episode.

350
00:23:02,851 --> 00:23:07,193
been about eight months and it's been just pure lifestyle change.

351
00:23:07,193 --> 00:23:11,084
Like I connected with the coach that like just helped me make some changes.

352
00:23:11,124 --> 00:23:12,595
And it's incredible how we

353
00:23:12,595 --> 00:23:15,087
you have a little more space between it.

354
00:23:15,087 --> 00:23:25,053
How you like you said, you can you can recognize the normal human emotions like things
will happen that will that would have normally triggered a depressive episode.

355
00:23:25,053 --> 00:23:28,995
And now I can identify them as, that's something that should make me sad.

356
00:23:28,995 --> 00:23:30,877
That's something that should make me angry.

357
00:23:30,877 --> 00:23:34,910
And because I have a thing to attach it to, I'm able to sort of battle it.

358
00:23:34,910 --> 00:23:39,683
I have some tools to move the energy to manage it a little bit more effectively.

359
00:23:40,324 --> 00:23:42,498
But like you said, the fear

360
00:23:42,498 --> 00:23:47,394
is still there of like, how long am I going to be strong enough to put up this fight
before it eventually just wins?

361
00:23:47,394 --> 00:23:49,806
Because it always fucking wins.

362
00:23:49,939 --> 00:23:51,580
Yeah, that's the entire goal.

363
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:54,272
And first off, I'm so excited to hear that.

364
00:23:54,272 --> 00:23:56,733
That's amazing to not have it for eight months.

365
00:23:56,733 --> 00:23:59,715
And I completely understand the fear.

366
00:23:59,715 --> 00:24:07,179
I please, that's one of my favorite parts about all this is if it comes back for you or
any of your listeners, reach out to me.

367
00:24:07,179 --> 00:24:11,642
I talk to people all the time just because I can relate and I understand it and I get it.

368
00:24:11,642 --> 00:24:14,484
And I'm so incredibly sorry that you know what it feels like.

369
00:24:14,484 --> 00:24:16,505
And it's horrific.

370
00:24:17,117 --> 00:24:19,618
So I mean, that's another constant theme.

371
00:24:19,618 --> 00:24:20,849
There's so many themes.

372
00:24:20,849 --> 00:24:27,803
The themes that I know that are just so straightforward are the fear of it coming and the
fear of the recurrence.

373
00:24:27,803 --> 00:24:31,786
And so I did used to have, like you said, it was just, it would hit, right?

374
00:24:31,786 --> 00:24:36,358
It hit every couple months and I'd be okay -ish and then it would hit, right?

375
00:24:36,358 --> 00:24:37,929
And I would be real low.

376
00:24:37,929 --> 00:24:40,931
It just turned into being just pretty much constant.

377
00:24:40,931 --> 00:24:44,693
Like that would be the kind of how the evolution of this happened.

378
00:24:44,745 --> 00:24:50,537
But you know, the constant themes are the terrifying feeling of the future.

379
00:24:50,537 --> 00:24:52,047
What does it hold?

380
00:24:52,447 --> 00:24:57,769
Everybody that I know that's been hospitalized is completely traumatized from that
experience.

381
00:24:58,029 --> 00:25:01,810
That is an absolute consistent feeling.

382
00:25:03,551 --> 00:25:11,323
And the insurance process and the ability to kind of navigate this in a normal way is just
not possible.

383
00:25:11,375 --> 00:25:17,327
in mental illness and you know, it's it's just it's just it's stupid no other way to put
it

384
00:25:17,937 --> 00:25:23,976
So the deep brain stimulation that you experienced, I assume you highly recommend it, five
stars.

385
00:25:24,037 --> 00:25:27,182
Is this pretty readily available to folks?

386
00:25:27,182 --> 00:25:28,394
I did insurance cover it?

387
00:25:28,394 --> 00:25:31,398
Like, how accessible is this for somebody who is in that desperate state?

388
00:25:31,398 --> 00:25:42,956
I'm alive, the only reason I'm alive is the National Institute of Health Brain Initiative,
which is a federal government, provides amazing clinical research grants to brilliant

389
00:25:42,956 --> 00:25:48,069
freaks in this area that want to try to save people's lives.

390
00:25:48,170 --> 00:25:53,033
And they provided funding to Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City.

391
00:25:53,033 --> 00:25:55,483
The lead investigator of this trial is Dr.

392
00:25:55,483 --> 00:25:56,233
Helen Mayberg.

393
00:25:56,233 --> 00:26:00,933
She's, in my opinion, top neurologist in the world, especially in mental illness.

394
00:26:00,933 --> 00:26:06,273
She spent 30 years literally trying to solve this problem.

395
00:26:06,273 --> 00:26:10,263
And she, in my opinion, based off my experience, has solved it.

396
00:26:10,263 --> 00:26:21,593
And so the simplistic aspect of what has done for me is, you know, I had the constant
feeling of dying, of death, of the disease.

397
00:26:21,737 --> 00:26:28,957
And so if 10 is the most severe, you know, the electrical pulses in that portion of the
brain neutralize it.

398
00:26:28,957 --> 00:26:31,167
So now my depression is neutralized.

399
00:26:31,167 --> 00:26:36,997
And the other part of the brain is the motivation portion of the brain, which, as you
know, you can't do anything, right?

400
00:26:36,997 --> 00:26:38,357
So that's at a one.

401
00:26:38,357 --> 00:26:41,917
And so that stimulation there neutralizes that.

402
00:26:41,917 --> 00:26:44,407
This is something that I learned through this process, too.

403
00:26:44,407 --> 00:26:51,017
I'm literally in my operating gown at 530 in the morning on August 22nd, 2022.

404
00:26:51,017 --> 00:26:51,477
Dr.

405
00:26:51,477 --> 00:26:54,986
Mayberg's in there and they told me, like, she's gonna come in and give you a pumped up
speech.

406
00:26:54,986 --> 00:26:57,397
I'm like, sweet, let's go and see what she's gotta say.

407
00:26:57,397 --> 00:27:01,237
And we're talking and I just looked at her and I was like, doc, like, I can't do anything.

408
00:27:01,237 --> 00:27:04,707
Like, I can't even walk my dog to my stop sign in front of my house.

409
00:27:04,707 --> 00:27:08,537
Like, she just looked at me and she goes, there's a medical reason for that.

410
00:27:08,537 --> 00:27:09,697
It's called abolition.

411
00:27:09,697 --> 00:27:11,297
And I'm like, what are you talking about?

412
00:27:11,297 --> 00:27:16,377
I'm like, I've done this, I've gone through this for 10 years and not a single person has
told me about that.

413
00:27:16,377 --> 00:27:18,899
Not a single therapist, not a single doctor.

414
00:27:18,899 --> 00:27:26,366
She's like, no, the medical rationale and reason why you're doing that is abolition, and
abolition is the ability not to do daily routine activities.

415
00:27:26,366 --> 00:27:27,668
That's why I couldn't brush my teeth.

416
00:27:27,668 --> 00:27:29,219
That's why I couldn't shower.

417
00:27:29,219 --> 00:27:33,984
And so I'm like, another just massive fail of our system.

418
00:27:33,984 --> 00:27:43,773
So if the entire goal of this disease is to crush your soul and to make you feel so
useless that you're gonna die, like one of the main reasons that that is is,

419
00:27:43,923 --> 00:27:47,105
Dude, I knew that I'm supposed to do yoga and meditation.

420
00:27:47,105 --> 00:27:49,736
I knew that I'm supposed to diet and exercise.

421
00:27:49,736 --> 00:27:51,077
I couldn't do shit.

422
00:27:51,077 --> 00:27:55,339
And so, because I can't do those things, I feel worse about myself.

423
00:27:55,339 --> 00:27:58,981
I drink too, and then I'll drink, then you do something to hide it.

424
00:27:58,981 --> 00:28:04,014
And your entire unit is looking at you like, why can't you just do something different?

425
00:28:04,014 --> 00:28:05,965
Like, why can't you do something healthy?

426
00:28:05,965 --> 00:28:09,267
And so, that to me is a massive miss.

427
00:28:09,267 --> 00:28:14,049
And so, I go on every single message board I can or anybody I talk to.

428
00:28:14,067 --> 00:28:21,522
that's in this space and I'm like, dude, abolition, abolition, understand that that is why
your behavior is how it is.

429
00:28:21,522 --> 00:28:24,034
This is not you making poor decisions.

430
00:28:24,034 --> 00:28:32,551
This is the disease again, hiding in its maniacal self and looking down at you and
laughing that you are making yourself feel worse.

431
00:28:32,551 --> 00:28:35,132
That's what's going to try and happen and do.

432
00:28:35,132 --> 00:28:41,861
And so, my tangent there is for a reason is to say, I don't have any of that now.

433
00:28:41,861 --> 00:28:44,172
And I love telling people, this is not you.

434
00:28:44,172 --> 00:28:47,533
I love educating caregivers to say, this is not them.

435
00:28:47,533 --> 00:28:48,853
This is the disease, right?

436
00:28:48,853 --> 00:28:49,703
Because they don't get it.

437
00:28:49,703 --> 00:28:50,234
They don't understand.

438
00:28:50,234 --> 00:28:51,344
They're so confused.

439
00:28:51,344 --> 00:28:54,105
Like this person I love so much is acting so differently.

440
00:28:54,105 --> 00:28:55,245
That's just a symptom.

441
00:28:55,245 --> 00:28:58,186
You can't see it, but it's just a symptom of this disease.

442
00:28:58,186 --> 00:29:03,648
And so my device is actually entering clinical trials in about a month or two.

443
00:29:03,768 --> 00:29:08,009
Abbott is the company that's going to be taking my device through clinical trials.

444
00:29:08,401 --> 00:29:14,865
I would guess it's, I don't know exactly, but two or three years from formally getting an
approval could be less than that.

445
00:29:14,865 --> 00:29:21,379
But ideally, they will see very positive results in a formal clinical trial.

446
00:29:21,379 --> 00:29:29,197
And this is something that could be FDA approved for the future for hopefully a successful
take on severe depression.

447
00:29:29,197 --> 00:29:35,120
And then there's freaks, there's other freaks that are doing advancements in
neurotechnology.

448
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,662
One of those companies that I help with is a company called Motif Neurotech.

449
00:29:39,662 --> 00:29:50,246
And so I help them put together a list of a group of patients with lived experience and we
talk to them about our experiences, how we can help guide the development of the product.

450
00:29:50,246 --> 00:29:53,308
And this is gonna be the future of technology.

451
00:29:53,308 --> 00:29:56,233
My simplified version of how I explain it is,

452
00:29:56,233 --> 00:29:59,423
I have the iPhone one in my head, which is great and it works awesome.

453
00:29:59,423 --> 00:30:01,433
These guys are creating the iPhone 15.

454
00:30:01,433 --> 00:30:04,713
I mean, they're creating something that's much more minimally invasive.

455
00:30:04,713 --> 00:30:05,863
It's much simpler to do.

456
00:30:05,863 --> 00:30:07,023
It's much more cost effective.

457
00:30:07,023 --> 00:30:10,893
Hopefully we can get this thing through trials and sees benefits and it goes forward.

458
00:30:10,893 --> 00:30:13,953
So the future is there for mental illness.

459
00:30:13,953 --> 00:30:16,973
just need, we need more, we need more and more research.

460
00:30:16,973 --> 00:30:18,613
need more and more.

461
00:30:18,733 --> 00:30:20,323
We need more and more investment.

462
00:30:20,323 --> 00:30:21,553
We need more and more tech.

463
00:30:21,553 --> 00:30:26,471
I had the ability to speak on Congress at a congressional briefing in April.

464
00:30:26,665 --> 00:30:36,325
And the reason I was doing that was they got their funding cut for the NIH Brain
Initiative by Congress by $400 million, which is 40 % of their budget.

465
00:30:36,325 --> 00:30:39,685
And so they couldn't do new clinical research.

466
00:30:39,685 --> 00:30:43,025
And so they could only extend current programs that they had done.

467
00:30:43,025 --> 00:30:47,665
And so my entire goal there and the entire goal of that was you can't do this again.

468
00:30:47,665 --> 00:30:48,825
Like you can't.

469
00:30:48,825 --> 00:30:50,805
It absolutely can never happen again.

470
00:30:50,805 --> 00:30:52,945
Like if we want to save lives,

471
00:30:52,945 --> 00:30:58,688
You need to continue to advance science and you need to continue to advance science so
that a pharma company will sponsor this.

472
00:30:58,688 --> 00:31:05,352
A med device company will take it over, sponsor it and take it through the clinical trial
process to get things FDA approved.

473
00:31:05,352 --> 00:31:08,485
And hopefully we'll see a lot more of that uptake in the near future.

474
00:31:08,485 --> 00:31:09,796
Yeah, hopefully.

475
00:31:09,918 --> 00:31:13,614
In the minute or so that we have left, you're working hard to help break the stigma.

476
00:31:13,614 --> 00:31:17,711
You've already offered our listeners to be a point of contact when the darkness hits.

477
00:31:17,711 --> 00:31:21,355
What is the best way to find you and to follow your work and to support what you're doing?

478
00:31:21,355 --> 00:31:31,559
so as a post advertising guy, I'm launching this at the wrong time because it's not ready
yet, but I'll show you to show you what I'm going to be doing.

479
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:38,683
this right here is a website that I'm creating and a movement that I'm creating, which is
pulverize the stigma.

480
00:31:38,683 --> 00:31:43,495
So when I speak, I say pulverize the stigma is one of my main things.

481
00:31:43,725 --> 00:31:50,147
So I'm creating right now a it's kind of like my own advocacy initiative, my own advocacy
movement.

482
00:31:50,328 --> 00:31:52,318
It's a digital print footprint for me.

483
00:31:52,318 --> 00:31:53,929
So people to find me.

484
00:31:53,949 --> 00:31:55,990
It will be pulverized the stigma .com.

485
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:57,030
It's in development.

486
00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:59,630
I would guess within a month I'll have it formally done.

487
00:31:59,630 --> 00:32:04,997
And I have some dope ass swag that I'm going to be able to get put on that site.

488
00:32:04,997 --> 00:32:07,499
And I'm not making a single dime off of any of this.

489
00:32:07,499 --> 00:32:14,404
Every single thing that's purchased from there is going directly to not -for -profits and
supporting mental illness.

490
00:32:14,604 --> 00:32:21,229
And all I want people to do is to wear it loud and proud and give a middle finger to the
stupid people in America.

491
00:32:22,151 --> 00:32:22,531
Amazing.

492
00:32:22,531 --> 00:32:26,753
We will have the link to that when it's ready at our website, thepitmast .com.

493
00:32:26,753 --> 00:32:30,194
And for now, we'll have links to your social media accounts so folks can follow you there.

494
00:32:30,194 --> 00:32:32,215
John, incredible story.

495
00:32:32,215 --> 00:32:38,157
I'm so glad that you have made your way out of the dark and found the light and that
you're out there doing the work you're doing because it's important.

496
00:32:38,157 --> 00:32:42,419
And it means a lot to me and I know to a lot of guys that are going through the same
stuff.

497
00:32:42,461 --> 00:32:43,223
You're the best.

498
00:32:43,223 --> 00:32:47,234
can't tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity to do this, the phenomenal platform.

499
00:32:47,234 --> 00:32:51,376
And I can't wait for you to show me the cool hikes out there in British Columbia someday.

500
00:32:51,376 --> 00:32:51,688
wait, man.

501
00:32:51,688 --> 00:32:52,321
That'll be fun.

502
00:32:52,321 --> 00:32:52,325
All

503
00:32:57,547 --> 00:32:58,877
Alright, my thanks to John Nelson.

504
00:32:58,877 --> 00:33:03,715
You can find links to follow him and his important work at our website, thefitmass .com.

505
00:33:03,715 --> 00:33:06,316
that's where we'll be back next week with another episode.

506
00:33:06,316 --> 00:33:12,738
Until then, please share this episode with anyone who you believe needs to hear it to help
them with their mental health struggles.

507
00:33:12,738 --> 00:33:13,645
Thanks for listening.