How To Achieve Work-Life Balance Before Your Job Kills You with Chris Michael Harris

[00:00:00] Jeremy: Coming up today on the fit mess?

[00:00:03] Chris Michael Harris: I wanna be everything I can be in this life. I wanna do everything that I aim to do and end damnit if this stupid shit that I experienced when I was seven is gonna stop me from doing that. That's not, that's not acceptable 

[00:00:12] Zach: That's Chris, Michael Harris, host of the startup you podcast Today we'll talk to him about how he burned out early as a successful entrepreneur and how he rose from the ashes physically and mentally. And we'll learn more about some of the more experimental things he's tried in order to heal.

[00:00:27] But first I'm Jeremy and I'm Zach we've spent years pushing ourselves to learn more about our own physical, emotional and mental health, and picked up a few coaching certificates along the way. But really we're two guys who got sick of our own shit and started making changes to be healthier, happier, and live more meaningful lives.

[00:00:42] And each week we talk to world class experts with advice to help you do the same.

[00:00:47] Jeremy: 

[00:00:47] Zach, one of the things we're gonna talk about with Chris today is something that you and I talk about a lot on and off the mic. And it's the idea of the things that we attach ourselves to the things that our, our ego holds onto that, that we make a part of ourselves.

[00:01:01] And I first recognized this and some of my first jobs working in radio because it was this, it was cool. Right. I had a cool job in radio, who the fuck works in radio. That's pretty. And I just clung to that. Like I was so afraid of losing that job because who the hell am I, if I don't have this cool job.

[00:01:17] And if, you know, if I end up going, working at, you know, fill in the blank burger joint and you know, all of a sudden I'm not special anymore. And there's so many things since then, even podcasting to some degree is, is very much a part of my identity for years. Alcohol was a part of my identity publicly and, you know, behind closed doors.

[00:01:35] What Chris shares with us today about how that burned him out so badly by attaching himself by, by attaching his identity to two things and, and industry there's so many powerful lessons in this conversation today.

[00:01:48] Zach: years ago. And I think this was, this was kind of the, it was the pivotal moment for me. Like I had been on like a health kick for the most part, , up until I think 2015, but this was the pivotal moment for me because I actually lost my identity. , I had a job where I had. , teams of people and I was really good at it.

[00:02:08] And was really like who I was. You knew me then. I was always on my phone. I was always working and like, that was me

[00:02:16] Jeremy: Yeah.

[00:02:16] Zach: and I decided to take another role. , and all my whole team went away. I went back to like, just being an individual contributor and like my world. Disappeared overnight when I left that job and I had no idea how tied I was to that and how much it was my identity. And I spent the better part of two years, figuring out who the fuck I was,

[00:02:43] Jeremy: mm-hmm

[00:02:44] Zach: because I didn't have me anymore.

[00:02:46] Jeremy: yeah, fast forward to now. have been a few changes in the last year as well. Things that are very much a part of what is typically your identity.

[00:02:54] Zach: Yes, but because of all the work that I did in the past, like, it didn't phase me as much. Like it still phased me, but, , again, job related, I left a job that was really toxic. I didn't have anything lined up. Like I just walked away from my job . But it didn't hurt me because my job was not my identity however, the other thing was walking away from my marriage. That was very much a part of my identity because , my ex and I would, , put on the show of, we are a happy couple and we do the things together and we go on vacation all of that. , so that one hurt a little bit, like from an identity perspective.

[00:03:29] , but I. Again, had I not done all of this work in the past of like going who the fuck am I? It would've hurt a lot more. So I walked away from that going, okay, well, I'm not married anymore, which is a huge part of anyone's life. Who's married. , but I had a really, I have a really good sense of who I am, what my values are and what my identity is.

[00:03:54] So. It definitely didn't hurt as much, but God, if I hadn't gone through that back in 2015, I would've been destroyed by this last year.

[00:04:02] Jeremy: I think, I think I had something similar. I don't know that , my work in it was as intentional, maybe as yours, but I remember having bounced around in radio jobs a little bit a as you do in that industry. And sort of realizing that I shouldn't attach myself to whatever show I was producing or whatever project I was a part of.

[00:04:21] And it got easier to just start seeing work as, oh, that's just, they, they're just the ones that pay me. They're just, they keep the lights on. That's not something that, that is me anymore. And I think that realization, I sort of just started applying accidentally to other areas of my life. And I think that's what made it.

[00:04:36] I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna pretend it's easy, but it made it possible. For me a year ago to sell my house, leave my town, my family, my friends, my country, and go and live this whole other life in a whole other place where I know nobody. And it's really interesting. It's a weird place. And, and maybe you're feeling some of this too, but it's a weird place to be in when you do sort of have a clean slate.

[00:04:58] And even if you know yourself, I think there's still a bit of a mask that you wear in general with people and, and you have to sort of decide who am I to them? Like what, what version of me do I share with these people? And when I had this feeling just yesterday, I was walking through, uh, like a shopping Plaza and I had the sense of, oh, I wonder if somebody like I'll run into somebody.

[00:05:18] I know, of course I won't, I don't know anybody here. But I had this like this weird feeling of, I, I am literally whoever I want to be here because there is no preconceived notion. There is no story attached to who I am other than the new guy. Right. So I, I still very much. And, and I think the lesson that applies here is that you, at any point in your life can rewrite the story and, and become whoever you want to be by taking the actions you need to take to get.

[00:05:46] Zach: Yeah, you don't have to move to the middle of nowhere,

[00:05:48] Jeremy: Right, right. You don't. Although I highly recommend it. I highly recommend it.

[00:05:53] Zach: I'm sure. I'm sure it's great. No, you can stay put and you can do it and it would be harder. Right. And I think some of the changes that one would make, , depending on what it is, right. You might lose some friends, but you might gain some friends too, like that are better suited to who you wanna be as a.

[00:06:10] Jeremy: Absolutely. 

[00:06:12] Zach: Who I am as a person is highly dependent on how my chemical makeup is running. Right. You gotta feed that engine 

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[00:07:26] Jeremy: As we mentioned at the beginning of the show, our guest today is Chris Michael Harris. He's the host of the wildly popular startup you podcast?

[00:07:33] We had a great conversation with him about how he burned himself out really badly by being a constant go getter, overachiever, the lessons he learned from that, the corrections he had to make to his health to get that back in line. And some of the more experimental things he's doing now to keep going even further.

[00:07:51] Chris Michael Harris: Obviously you guys know me to be an entrepreneur, , I've kind of, I kind of just fell into that. I, I always say this it's a lifestyle, not a career. , and most of the people, you know, my show, that's what we, we talked to entrepreneurs and I've done like three, 400 of them.

[00:08:04] And I would say that the common denominator is we all were doing something outside of the nine to five. Like we all understood very inherently at a young age that there was another way to make money that was better suited for us. I'm not saying that entrepreneurs are purely born and not, not bred or created, but I think that there's a lot of us like, like myself, that we just kind of always jive with that.

[00:08:24] Right? So even way back, 10, 11, 12 years old, I was doing lawn care businesses. By the time I got to high school, I, a buddy of mine and I made that like a more real thing. And we made $16,000 in my, my junior and senior year in high school, got to college more of the same, started a moving company because the building I lived in sucked to move out.

[00:08:40] That within 72 months later became a multimillion dollar moving an installation business. learned so much along the way from that experience that I wrapped it up into doing what I do now, which is providing online education information products or, or vastly growing industry. And so helping other people through the experiences that I've had kind of navigate how to start and grow a business, but to do it successfully and not feel like you're pigeon held to the nine to five.

[00:09:04] And there are other options that are viable, not just to replace your income, but also to create generational.

[00:09:10] Jeremy: That's all awesome and very similar to what we do here with our own sort of health journey and, and helping people along the, the way with our own experiences. And what's worked and what's not worked for us. And I, know, along the way for you you had your own. Use. And so I was hoping to dive into that a little bit.

[00:09:23] Can you tell us a little bit about, that process and, and what you learned about yourself and, and what happened to you? 

[00:09:28] Chris Michael Harris: Yeah, it wasn't a death sentence, but it was pretty damn close. , so in the middle of that, that moving company builds. Uh, we, like I mentioned, we did get into doing some installation work and we were traveling all over the country and, , 32 states and hundreds and hundreds of employees and all this and that.

[00:09:41] And I was taking red eyes and driving in a 10 day span. I drove from, uh, the distance, the equivalent distance of New York to LA and halfway back in 10 days, just all over the country. It's funny. When you look at the map of the country, it doesn't look that. It's like, oh, Georgia to Nebraska. Ah, it's just like here to here and it's like, yeah, but that's like 26 hours.

[00:10:00] So it was just so much growth made. We're just trying to keep up and I'm having to fill in wherever I needed to be. , and, and I really wasn't taking care of myself. we found out later on that it was more so a lot of these things kind of. Began at a younger age, the, the issues that I experienced, but definitely the catalyst was living in a way drinking a lot in college.

[00:10:19] It was kind of the perfect storm, but the, the final like nail in the coffin was those four years of just abusing my body for that business. Right. So finally things were getting real bad. My energy was really depleted. I just did not feel good. I was really, really struggling. The caffeine. I was taking caffeine pills cuz drinking coffee wasn't even enough on top of IVANS.

[00:10:38] There were times when I was just drinking monster energy drinks, the resalable ones and that's all I had the whole day, no food at all. That was like nourishment and a can obviously that's not nourishment. So you know when you're young and you're in your twenties, you. Shit on Bulletproof. It's the dream, right?

[00:10:51] It's it's, it's, it's the, it's having the, the Bezos success story. It's the having the Musk success story and you're driven by that. Right. And it's, it's a powerful thing to be driven by. , so finally, my wife's like, you gotta do something about, like, this

[00:11:03] is I've been telling you for years is getting bad.

[00:11:04] You gotta do something about it. , so I went got some, some functional medicine

[00:11:07] labs done and it was bad. , So I don't get into too much of the details of that specifically, but we were very closely trending to

[00:11:14] like what could have been cancerous territory. I I won't be too TMI,

[00:11:18] but just give an example of where I was at.

[00:11:20] Uh, my urinalysis and my Sali analysis showed double zero. So my, my thyroid was wasn't working at all. My hormones were completely shot. , testosterone was in the floor. , I could not produce a movement bowel movement more than like once or twice a. , and I was just having to like take heavy cleansers just because I would get, so I got so bad to the point that like my skin would start to change color.

[00:11:39] It looks kind of greenish because you're not eliminating toxins the way you're supposed to be doing. Um, so, so a lot of the pharmaceutical remedies that I was on because I had experienced some of those issues previously, you know, the, the vis in the antidepressants and stuff like that, had kind of actually exacerbated the problem.

[00:11:55] So it was like, you gotta get off of. You gotta cut down the stress in your life and you've gotta completely revamp your lifestyle unless you wanna die by 40 or 50. Like that was the conversation we had with the functional medicine, integrative medicine doctor. Um, and I, I chose to go that route more natural route.

[00:12:09] I, I watched people go down the other route of just taking the next drug and putting a bandaid on it. And it's just not, it it's just, you know, you take something and then you've got a accommodate for 20 more side effects. If not vastly more than. So it was a total revamp from the ground up man. And so that business, we chose to walk away from that moving company, installation business, because of this reason.

[00:12:29] And I think a lot of people were like, why don't you sell it? And it's like, you don't just put it on marketplace. Like that's not how selling a business works. I hate to break. I wish it was that 

[00:12:37] easy. 

[00:12:38] Jeremy: Under Craigslist, uh, you know, businesses for sale, you just offer 'em up, meet at the mall. No big 

[00:12:42] Chris Michael Harris: yeah, 

[00:12:43] Zach: They're all legitimate. 

[00:12:44] Right. 

[00:12:44] Chris Michael Harris: Oh, yeah, totally, totally. You know, huge opportunities here when acquisitions take place in, on wall street.

[00:12:50] That's how they go down. Yeah. Craig's list M and a um, yeah, so we chose to walk away from it. It sucked, I hated it was like losing a, it was like losing a, a loved one or something because your first business, that's your baby. Right. And the doc's like, look, if you're gonna do this, the first thing you have to do is you have to, I don't want any stress in your life.

[00:13:05] You have to totally just relax because I know you've been the opposite of that and you've burned your adrenals and all this and that. And your body needs to heal. Hell am I gonna do with my life? I can't sit around. This's gonna make more stress sitting around. I gotta do something. So I started the podcast, which is now startup view podcast.

[00:13:19] It was an entrepreneur hour at the time. , and that just kind of started to take off, man. It just kind of, within two weeks, we were trending top 10 in the world, under new noteworthy. At the time it was iTunes under business health and education. And I realized that I had something to share with people.

[00:13:33] Obviously they're getting value out of it. So we leverage that into getting now three of the sharks from shark tank grant Cardell's guy, Kawasaki's Dave Asburys you guys have had Dave, you know, Dave, um, just some of the biggest names that like, I didn't think I'd ever have the opportunity to speak to in a one-on-one capacity are now like on my show, which was really cool.

[00:13:49] , and then we leverage that into doing what I'm doing now, which is having that online business and brand. So it just kind of, something that was really terrible. I'm happy to get into more details if you'd like me. um, but something that was like, literally the darkest moment in my life, like I was suicidal.

[00:14:02] I won't even try to, you know, say otherwise I was absolutely suicidal. I, I lost sight of who I was as a person. Everything with my identity was wrapped up in that business. Like I was Chris, the successful entrepreneur. And even how we led out today, you know, you asked people like, who are you? What? I don't go into this like, well, here's who I am.

[00:14:18] My favorite color's blue. My favorite food is pizza. And I love this and I live in Austin. It. I am entrepreneur, this is what I do, right. It's our name and what we do. That's how we introduce ourselves in the Western world. Right. And so when you lose that and you've built your whole identity and you've poured everything you have into it,

[00:14:34] and you're seeing your friends, family members and stuff like that, you know, they're off into the world.

[00:14:39] They're having kids, they're buying homes and you feel like you're starting from scratch and you've sunk 10 years and everything into it. And you're like, shit, like now what you know? Um, and now not only that my wife has to kind of carry the ball for a. So I'm having this like crazy amount of guilt because I'm having to pass the ball to her.

[00:14:54] And I'm like trying to be like a conciliate to her, to, to, you know, help her kind of grow her business. But I can't do the pushing and the heavy lifting. I always say this. It's like, it's like if Wolverine lost his ability to heal, like that's what it felt like. I was kind of like naked out in the woods, you know, I was like, what, like, what do I do?

[00:15:10] You know, I've lost my superpower, which was to work hard. So it was a really trying time in my life, man. And I had, I was forced to really address. A lot of really deep, dark rooted issues that were really driving me in that unhealthy manner and that unhealthy way. Right. And having to reconcile this thingss because I heard this guy talks about it really interesting.

[00:15:29] Actually found him on take TikTok. He talks about this thing, calls it the tunnel. He says, you go from starvation and it's starting to thrive. And then you enter this, this season called the tunnel and the tunnel is basically like, lose everything. Right. And this doesn't happen to everybody, but for, for high achievers, like big, you know, you know, folks like that, trying to big things in the.

[00:15:45] The tunnel, like everything feels dark and you see maybe a little light at the end of the tunnel, but for a while, you're in total darkness. When you get to the end of that, there's, you have to, one of two ways to go. You can either accept that defeat and you can just go and try to play, not to lose, or you break through and become what he calls a king, you know, become the person you were intended to be.

[00:16:02] And he says that I'm like, holy shit. Like, has this guy like, is this guy living in my life? Like, it's exactly, you know, how I felt throughout that process, but you, but during that time in that tunnel, man, you really have to face your demons. I would say this entrepreneurship of all of all, all things that I've experienced in life is gonna pull out the good shit in you.

[00:16:19] And it's gonna pull out the bad shit in you. Like you're gonna find both, you're gonna find all the ways that you didn't realize what you're capable of. And you're gonna find all the ways that you're carrying baggage for lack of a better term, right? You're gonna find all the ways that, that you are your own worst enemy, which I think is very applicable to what you guys talk about.

[00:16:35] Zach: So you, you mentioned, you know, we could go into more detail if we wanted. And I do want to, , to some extent, I know, I know that like gut health was very important for you in, in your recovery, but can you, can you just talk a little bit more about being down there at like at the lowest point and what you had to do to like mentally pick yourself back up?

[00:16:56] Chris Michael Harris: Yeah, I think the thing is, man is you, can you, you, uh, you can't trust yourself when you're there because you're neurologically. I don't have people understand purely, you know, how the gut brain access works, but, but effectively you produce more neurotransmitters in your gut that your brain and people don't understand that, uh, the gut is the, is the second is the second brain of the body.

[00:17:15] Um, you have more nerves in your gut than your actual spinal column, which is nuts. People don't think about that. , so when you have that, not only just the gut issues, but the other rampant issues that as we kept unearthing things, we kept fi I mean, it was like a chain reaction. It was everything that needed to be addressed to a large degree, um, all the major ones anyway, , you can't trust yourself, you can't trust your thoughts.

[00:17:34] You really can't. Um, so, so for what I did was I would find my north node, , and, and that ended up being mentors, positive examples, , working with therapists, you know, it was like, you're not gonna make any major life decisions right now because you're, you're a wounded bird. You you've clipped your wings.

[00:17:51] And so your mind is in a place of, oh my God, I can get outta here, but I don't have a wing. And, and so you can't. Can't trust your thoughts as, as crazy as that sounds like. I wish it was. I wish I had the mindset now, Zach, that I had back then when I was going through that, because I would've been able to pragmatically work myself through it in a much more seamless manner than I did.

[00:18:11] Um, but you, you that's, there's not a, it's impossible to explain unless you've been there. There's there's not rational. Deduct. That's going on in your mind. It's like pure survival mentality every single day. And so you have to lean on people. You have to lean on your doctors, you have to lean on your therapists.

[00:18:26] You have to lean on your spouse. You have to lean on mentors, coaches, whatever you have at your disposal, , to kind of help you see what, what, what you should be doing. Right? So my business coach and mentor had been through a similar situation on more than one occasion, almost died more than once. I told him I'm never gonna hang out with him because in person more than five minutes at a time, because I'll probably gonna become close to dying, how much he almost dies.

[00:18:49] But, um, he, he kind of, he, he kind of was one of my north nodes. He was like, this is what you need to do. Here's the playbook. And I just executed and followed it. Doctors. Here's the playbook execute, right? Like no major decisions make your life as stress free as possible. And just follow the resources that you.

[00:19:07] At your disposal and put them, put them or YouTube videos find people online. You know, I found a couple influencers like in the health space, not influencers, actual physicians that I followed. Okay. Great take notes. Right. So I, I, I had to kind of let go and, and put it in other people's hands to a large degree.

[00:19:22] Uh, and then finally we started to see, okay, there was the spark I got called it, the spark, like my brain started thaw out. Right. We felt kind of a spark. I started coming. Um, and, and, you know, then I could start to make more decisions for my career and my life and new ideas and, you know, stuff like that.

[00:19:37] And all that stuff had gone away. Like once we ripped the band-aid and I stopped taking the vis and antidepressants, it was like, it was zombie mode. There was just nothing going on, you know? Um, so yeah, so leaning on a lot of those things and then slowly getting to the point where I started to trust myself again, to start making decisions, cuz otherwise I've made really bad ones, to be honest. 

[00:19:55] Jeremy: I want to go back to that part where you're sort of in the tunnel, mostly because I'm kind of in the tunnel right now. I, I left, you know, a 20 year career in radio for the last year. I've been throwing everything I have into, you know, this, trying to grow this thing. And I'm I'm same thing. My wife is the one with the full-time job.

[00:20:13] I'm the one doing this. And. you know, breadwinner status went away, all of that, and I'm leaning hard on what you're talking about. Finding the mentors, finding the people with the resources, the advice, one thing there is no shortage of in the world right now is advice. 

[00:20:28] So how, how do you know, I guess who to listen to?

[00:20:33] Who do you trust? Because I, I'm getting to a point where I'm starting to believe that any coach, any mentor, if you follow their plan, it will. 

[00:20:42] The trick is to not get distracted by every shiny object that comes up that says, oh, but have you thought about it this way? What about this? Have you thought about this?

[00:20:49] We can do this in 30 days. You know, all there's just you're flooded with your life can be fixed if you just do what I say. So how do you know who to trust and, and how do you navigate that? 

[00:20:59] Chris Michael Harris: It's a fantastic question. And I did the exact same thing that you're talking about at first, it was like, and honestly, I said this, I love Gary Vanerchuk. I think Gary Vanerchuck is fantastic. Gary Vanerchuk is my F kryptonite when it was in that season, because hi, his, his mechanism was my fallback. Same with, I would always, like I said, it was my Wolverine just work harder, work, harder, work harder.

[00:21:19] And that I had to learn a new that wasn't the problem. Gary who Gary V's talking to is the kid that's living in mom's basement at 33 and playing video games. That ain't me. So for me, that's too much. That's like, you know, that's, that's like steroids for a, a, a race horse. Like it's just too much, right?

[00:21:34] Same with grant card, own 10 X, bro. I, I, I've already 50 Xed. Right? Like I grew nothing, literally an idea into a multimillionaire company when I was 25 years old. Like that's not my problem. Right. So I needed other outlets and other things that I need to find. And I say, this there's a book that you should look into.

[00:21:48] It's called the shallow. It talks about what the internet is doing to our brains. It's really fascinating. One of the things that it talks

[00:21:53] about is, um, we cognitive overload, right? So we're giving ourselves, your working memory can retain about five to seven things and that's even been found to be overstated.

[00:22:02] So meet what that means is

[00:22:03] like, if, if somebody's listening to this episode, they're gonna retain about maybe five to seven

[00:22:06] things. If they really go through what's called schema,

[00:22:09] right. Which is where the brain actually

[00:22:10] takes things from working memory into forming long term memories, and then makes

[00:22:13] neural connections into how they apply that into your life.

[00:22:16] Right. So your brain's going

[00:22:17] through that process on its. Working memory is like,

[00:22:20] joing something down on a notepad. the long term memory is like

[00:22:22] your Ram, right That's like your deep, like you can store so much stuff, then you're like that deep level part of your brain.

[00:22:29] Right? The problem, what you're talking about and why I referenced the book is a lot of us

[00:22:33] right now with the way we're using the internet.

[00:22:35] Just all day nonstop, it's changing our brains. And what they found was studies

[00:22:39] are showing just an hour, a day for five

[00:22:41] days. It was a, a, I think they did at Berkeley or something like that A study was changing people's brains, the way their actual.

[00:22:48] Neurons were firing after just an hour day for five days.

[00:22:51] Uh, we've lost our deep thinking abilities to a large degree, which is probably the book is called the shallows. Um, we, we become, we're really burning out our dopa genetic responses, which means dopamine receptors are just completely burned. So you, you don't have that like work really hard to get that reward.

[00:23:07] And it makes the, a word that much better. Why? Because you can just go to your phone and get the same Tomine response, right. I'm not saying that's your issue and, you know, per se, but I do think that the other one, the, the core premise that applies.

[00:23:19] There's too much damn information. One of the most beautiful things that, that I experienced with that first business, cuz this was pre, this was like we used social media to grow that first business.

[00:23:29] This was circa like 2012, 2013. , but man, I, I call myself a pioneer. I was just out there just doing it and I wasn't on social media and I wasn't on the internet. I was just figuring shit out Mo. Now that's a painful way to do it. And that's too far the other way, way too far. The other way, my life could have been so much easier.

[00:23:43] Had I not done? Well, there was beauty and just being in the silence and we don't give ourselves permission to just be in the silence and to figure things out. So I always say this, but finding a coach for mentors, like dating, that might sound weird, cuz maybe you've got like a male coach and you're like, well that sounds weird.

[00:23:57] Feeling like, oh, whatever. But it is, it's like dating. So you need to find people that have similar values. You need to find somebody who has a similar orthodoxy or one that you feel like is best suited for you. You need to find somebody that has done something that you feel like aligns with your skill sets.

[00:24:10] I could do that. Oh, that makes sense to me. Right? I've worked with tons of mentors. I spent hundreds of thousand dollars. It's not exaggeration working with D with various people, but man, sometimes you find the right person. You spend two grand on their program. And you're like, holy shit, like that just unlocked everything for me.

[00:24:25] Doesn't mean the other stuff isn't relevant. It doesn't mean you don't pull that other stuff back into their methodology, but finding the right person and then staying in immerse in that community of that particular person's teachings, that's really where it's at. And then I would say this too. , I'm a big of using my phone, like smoke break.

[00:24:44] Right. So I, my phone is ne this is my office. My phone does not come into this office. It just doesn't during the Workday, I don't care. Uh, the only thing that'll happen is I'll get a buzz on here. If, if an emergency call comes through, cause my phone's on do not disturb. I set favorites on my phone, right?

[00:24:58] So if my mom, God forbid, something happened and somebody calls that's coming through, or if you call twice in a row, it'll still come through. , but I'm locking that out completely social media. I have it limited to an hour a day. Now a lot of people say that's oh, a full hour. Yeah. Well cuz I'm using a lot of it for work.

[00:25:10] So I do need social media. Hour day on social media, all social media, total, not just like each platform an hour day, , because I'm protecting my brain. , I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing, I use my muse S which is a neurofeedback device. So I'm doing meditation. I read, I make sure to read a book a week, right. It was found that people that read a book a month are in the top of their field.

[00:25:29] People that read a book a week are, are the top 1% of their field. Like literally it's that cut and dry. It's that? Cut. And. Reading changes your brain back to counteract what the internet is doing to our brains. It does promulgate and promote creative thinking, deep thinking, thought meditation, linear thinking, all the things that the internet is, is the opposite of.

[00:25:49] So the reason I say all this and why I'm getting into the nerdy brain science of it is because when we're trying to take in all those various inputs, we're overloading the brain, we're trying new things and we never get deep into one specific strategy from one particular person. Right. Cause you said it.

[00:26:03] I'm confident that it would work to some various various degree, right? Like working with somebody might get me to six figures and maybe that's what they do. And maybe I've gotta adopt a new mentor to get to seven figures or eight figures or whatever, you know, whatever it is you're trying to do in your business, but really locking in we've become a microwave society.

[00:26:19] We want things now. Why? Because our brains are being trained to be that way. So when we do a strategy somebody's strategy for a week and they're like, you gotta be consistent with your podcast. Awesome. We do an episode. We do cool. I'm doing four episodes. This. By by week 2, 3, 4, 5. We're not doing it anymore, right?

[00:26:34] We're not staying on that same consistent schedule. We're not implementing their strategies anymore. So for me, it's doing less, right? Some of the biggest, most successful people that I've come across in life, they have four major initiatives a year, not a week, a year that blew my mind, literally blew my mind when I found that out.

[00:26:49] It's and I I'm a big fan of Brian ran by the way. The 12 week year is fantastic. Love, love the 12 week 

[00:26:54] year what's what's going. Number one. What's the most important goal right now. I love the book. The one thing too, by Gary Keller. It's the one thing is the name of the book. Not the one thing too. The one thing by Gary Keller laid on top of a 12 week year.

[00:27:05] You read those two books you're well, on your way, find one or two mentors. Read those books. Focus on an annual annualized goals are such a varsity like they're, they're never gonna work. So that's why I like 12 Hovi gear. What's that one goal with that one mentor you've identified, this is what I need for that season.

[00:27:22] I have a process that I go through and if I'm, if I'm bouncing over the place, just stop. But it's a protocol that works for me. It's called leader. It's called be a leader. L I T L I T R. Learn, implement, test, repeat, learn, implement, test, repeat. You're learning the things that you've identified that you need to work on next.

[00:27:37] You're implementing the things that you've now learned because you're strategically executing on those things. You're testing to make sure it works. You're repeating the process. The reason I like that is because I'm an I I'm a dominant, I meaning I just wanna go implement stuff. Nah, I don't wanna read the book.

[00:27:49] That's too much work. I don't wanna go through the program first. Right. So I just wanna do stuff and it makes shit harder. I jump off the, I jump off a cliff and figure out to build a plane the way down. That's a painful way to learn shit. As I discovered right now, on the other side, you have professional learners is what I call them.

[00:28:04] They wanna learn everything their freaking is to know. And it's really an excuse because they're scared. They're afraid they're gonna fail. So they feel like they have to know everything and know the manual, read it upside down three times and backwards before they actually try something, they need to kick their ass into motion.

[00:28:17] So if you follow that leader plan of making sure I'm learning what I need to learn to implement standing to. Or next thing I need to do to test that, to make sure it's actually working, not just for set it and forget it, and then repeating that process. So I feel like if you limit your scope of the people, you're following, identifying the people you need for that particular season, implement it and, and determine what's the one thing right now of all the things I could be doing from the book, the one thing using the 12 week year to identify these are the, this is this quarterly goal.

[00:28:41] I'm just focused on that and use the leader method. I feel like you are on your way. You'll find a way to that tunnel extremely.

[00:28:50] Zach: Wow. I have so many questions about so many things.

[00:28:53] Chris Michael Harris: Yeah.

[00:28:54] Zach: About everything that you just said. And, uh, I, I do have to say, I think we talked about it before, but I have my social media set for 15 minutes every day.

[00:29:03] So it it's, it is, it is the best. Um, but I do wanna switch topics because we have a limited amount of time and. Actually I'm reading a book right now called spirit tech. And it's about consciousness hacking on how you use technology and tools and, , potentially drugs to like unlock things quicker than you normally would. And when we were on your show, , you mentioned, , psychedelics and that you're starting to experiment with those. So I would love to hear a little bit about that experimentation, what , you're experimenting with and why you're doing that.

[00:29:38] Chris Michael Harris: yeah. Um, yeah, don't tell the ATF that I'm talking about this, I guess that would be the one, right? The D the de the DEA would probably be more likely DEA, ATF, whoever would be the, the three letter that would come after me for this one. , Yeah, man. So I mentioned when I was in that dark tunnel season, , that you're faced, you really have to face your demons and realize the, uh, the reasons that you kind of created and manifested the realities of your life.

[00:30:01] Right? Um, I'm a big believer. I'm a huge Christian. So a lot of people were like, wait, what? This Christian guys and a psychedelics that's kind of oxymoronic. And he's been led astray. , But, but anyways, yeah. So, so for me, it was like a lot of the issues were actually leading me away from trusting God with the decisions I was making in my life.

[00:30:17] Like they really were riding a separation and to a large degree. , so I did, so I guess kind of go back to, to square one here in that season, the dark season, , did a lot of the, the, the rat conventional therapies and talk therapy and stuff like that. And I just, man, I would just hate these walls. I just feel like they could not.

[00:30:35] They just, they owned me. Like I just, no matter what I did, I just couldn't, it was like I was wrestling a, a Wal wrist. Like I just couldn't do anything, you know, I couldn't move it. So I had a friend that was into, and I, I knew that he was into, uh, various forms of, of NLP, specifically EFT. So for people don't know what that is, neurolinguistic programming.

[00:30:51] Uh, if you look it up, they're gonna call it pseudoscience a promise. There's Sam merit to it. And there's like, that would take a whole podcast episode just to talk about what that merit actually looks. But it's been found to be extremely effective, specific over things like C B T cognitive behavioral therapy.

[00:31:03] And I can get into all, whatever at some point. , but anyway, so EFT is emotional freedom technique. It's tapping on your various like pressure points of your body and then working through. , various situations, how you felt through situations so on and so forth. It's, it's basically pressure instead of acupuncture, it's effectively like the most easiest way that I can describe what it is.

[00:31:22] So we kind of noticed there were some things cracking there. Like I, wasn't the type of person that no matter what, I wouldn't shed a tear, no matter what, like I've conditioned myself through the traumas I experienced growing up, I grew up in an abusive home to never show emotion. Well, the problem is you don't get to choose what emotions you show, which ones you don't, you just block.

[00:31:36] 'em all you lock, 'em all away. Right. And that effect that was affecting me at a big level. The next thing for me. Is that I was constantly trying to prove myself because the person that I was abused by growing up, , I felt like I always had to prove to him that I was worthy because no matter what I did, uh, if I could've scored 50 points in a basketball game, I was a captain of my team.

[00:31:54] I was playing multiple sports at a time. Like I was making straight A's. I had a job, like I was doing all the things and it was never enough. Never, no matter what, it was never enough, it was, I scored 50 points. It was, well, you had six turnovers and you fouled out with two minutes left in the game. That was the focus, or it was focusing on my friends.

[00:32:09] One of 'em play pro baseball. And one of 'em play collegiate NCAA division one basketball in Miami. But obviously I'm not gonna measure up to them because I didn't go play pro baseball in division one basketball. So that was always the bar that I was compared to. So I never felt good enough and never felt like I was achieving enough.

[00:32:23] So take that bad data, no emotions. Right? So you're not celebrating any of the wins in your life on top of constantly needing to prove yourself. You talk about hamster wheel, Jesus Christ. You're you're gonna. No matter what you do, you feel like you're total, Schock your total, but I a million dollars, 26, 27 years old, it was like, oh, Hey, somebody, um, somebody pulled out in front of you in the car and they waved high.

[00:32:47] That like, that was the significance of it to me, you know, it like, it meant nothing. It meant was off to the next. So how I make a billion, you know, it was that's, it's a de it's it's devastating. Like it really drives you into to insanity. So. The problem is that these are really deep layers of the onion.

[00:33:02] If you look at the, you know, kind of the subconscious as layers of the onion, you got cutting into those layers. The, in my mind, the conventional therapy, like maybe cuts that first layer. It gives you the ability to rationally do something with your trauma, right? It's a crutch. It's, let's take this trauma.

[00:33:17] And then we can act in accordance that we basically bypass the trauma to. So you can function as a normal human being in society. That's what conventional therapy is, and I'm not shitting on it, cuz it's extremely effective in a lot of people. They really benefit from it. But that's really what it. NLP is like a layer deeper you're tapping into the subconscious, but you haven't shifted your consciousness enough to be suggestible enough, to be able to really make big, big, big, deep seated changes.

[00:33:39] Like at your OS level. Like you could change the cover you put on your phone, or you could upgrade and put a new wallpaper on your screen or add new apps and new bit new bells and whistles and stuff, but you ain't changing the OS with, with NLP alone. You're just not so finally. And, and to much of my probably reluctance. I be hearing like four times in a week, two weeks. Hey man, you gotta try psilocybin. You gotta try psilocybin. It's changing my life. It's changing my life. It's like, trust me. It's not what it's not, what's been depicted. Mario's not gonna jump outta the screen and try to fight you. Like that's not what happens.

[00:34:10] Like the room doesn't melt. People don't scream at you. Like it's so exaggerated. That's not what happens. Okay, perfect. I'll try it. So I, I had already been dabbling with Delta eight, which is a legal. Um, and as a poly and isomer of, of THC, it is, it's a THC, like derivative it's like THC is Delta nine. This is Delta eight, it's legal in Texas legal in many places.

[00:34:30] And I was experiencing some pretty radical, like deep changes in terms of just understanding things from through a different lens. , but maybe not necessarily as far deep, like I'm literally keep going down this rabbit hole as I wanted to introduce SSI. Your life changes in 10 minutes. I mean, literally your life changes in 10 minutes.

[00:34:48] You just understand things and see things and feel things through a totally different level. Um, I, I saw, I don't know how much we're gonna get into this, but I saw, um, I saw, I saw God. I saw like the, the massive, like, not like a face or anything, but I saw like this massive present. That is God, or I understood it to be God like pouring life, energy out into all things and giving everything life.

[00:35:15] And that this is like seven minutes into my personal assignment experience. It was wild, but you just start to hear and understand things and you just genuinely feel a sense of peace. , things come to you that there's no way that I conjured up in my imagination. Uh, in fact, a study came out and said that like, Don't quote me the number specifically, it was like 70, 65 or 70%, even as high 75%.

[00:35:38] Something in that ballpark of people that went in that were atheists went into like a psilocybin study, cuz they do these controlled studies and stuff like that. Uh, I think Johns Hopkins has like a division that they do something there. , they went in atheist, they came out believing in something doesn't believe.

[00:35:50] They mean they believe in what I believe in, but they believe in something now. So there's radical transformations that are having at a deep, deep, deep, subconscious level. In fact, now some of the studies are. That it is literally Ute from one round of psilocybin. This is magic mushrooms for those who don't know what that means. Uh, one round, one, one micro dose of that can have the effects of an antidepressant for an entire year. 

[00:36:11] Now you tell me if, if big pharma came out with a drug, they said, you take it once a year. Right? What was that scene from the office where Kevin Malones like an, an acid that lasts for a month, you know?

[00:36:21] And like, it's like the big idea that he had. If you're not in office fan, you're gonna be like, what hell are you talking? But yeah, it lasts for up to a year. They're finding that as literally like the, the brain's natural reset. It literally is changing the brain in ways that we can now measure, which is unbelievable.

[00:36:35] , and it's really powerful. It's helping people with things like depression, with addiction, , with, with things that I mentioned, right. Trauma is a huge one. It's helping people with really just having a deeper and better and broader understanding of life, uh, for me and the prove myself. It just got completely destroyed because I went to a deep, like soul level where I forgave my, this person.

[00:36:56] I don't say who, cuz I don't wanna disrespect this person while this person's still alive. I, I said I wouldn't do that until this person passes. , this person forgave him at a deep, deep, deep level. And I just immediately just started balling like, like a child, like just started ball. in a way that I haven't cried in years and people start noticing like, man, you're so much more present.

[00:37:15] Like you're so like, I just, I feel you more, right? You're not like stone cold and behind this, you know, really iron tight wall and not willing to divulge or share things and stuff like that. , it changes you, it literally changes you. And so I'm not here to tell people to go out and run and find a local tree corner.

[00:37:31] , I wouldn't do that. If you've, if, if you've, if you've gone through all of the other things, if you've done the conventional therapy for years, you've spent thousands dollars. If you've go tried NLP work, I did hypnotherapy. I did the EFTs. I did all those things and that's still, there's still a block there.

[00:37:47] I, a hundred percent think that it's something to explore. The good news is, is there are people called psychedelic integrative therapists and they actually walk you through that. So they don't source it for you. He's like you show up and order it like McDonald. You have to source it. And hopefully it's from a li a reliable source, which is probably why should you should legalize it and regulate it?

[00:38:01] Because that way we could actually know what the hell's in this stuff. You can also grow it at home. If you want, again, this is not advice, just telling you can, if you want to. Um, but if you source it and you take it to a person like that, they'll sit there with you through your trip. It's the most beautiful experience you'll have in your life. , and having somebody there to walk you through it, it just helps even my wife, sometimes I'll be on it and I'll talk to her and we'll have like deep, profound conversations about our relationship and our lives together. Like man, like what was I thinking? Like, why did I do that? I'm so sorry. Like, you know, and it's, it's just an amazing, beautiful experience you just feel love.

[00:38:32] And, uh, I would call it the holy spirit, but like, you feel all these things kind of with you and you feel the room around you and every, I mean, I could go into all these crazy experiences that I've had doing it, but man, I I've heard people that have gone through, and I know some integrative therapists, psyche, integrative therapists that.

[00:38:46] Literally now changed people's lives to such a degree that people gave them season tickets to sporting events that he stays at their beach houses. I mean, they literally changed their life that they feel like he's part of the family now. So it's a beautiful thing it's growing in terms of popularity again, which is amazing.

[00:38:59] And I highly recommend it to anybody that just feels stuck with something. And they're just like, I don't wanna look back. This is me. I don't wanna look back at the end of my life and be like, I could have been this, but these stupid things were blocking me. And I knew they existed. I knew they were there, but I couldn't do a damn thing about. 

[00:39:16] Jeremy: Yeah. 

[00:39:16] Chris Michael Harris: right. I wanna be everything I can be in this life. I wanna do everything that I aim to do and end damnit if this stupid shit that I experienced when I was seven is gonna stop me from doing that. That's not, that's not acceptable for me. Right. So that O that over that overcomes any preconceived notions I have about the therapies or what have you, and, and more over, and then I'm gonna stop talking here, um, look into if you really wanna understand.

[00:39:37] And you're like, well, that's legal, that's illegal. And you know, the pharmaceutical drugs are legal and they're blah, blah, blah. Okay. Look into how this stuff is. Look into the vast amount of knowledge we have about the stuff that's made in a lab, the antidepressants, the side effects that they have, how bad that stuff is in relation to something like psilocybin.

[00:39:56] Cause I promise you this there's very few for psilocybin and there's a plethora like 200 pages long of things like, like Vivance for one it's not anti-depressant , is like a one molecule away from, from speed. The drug speed literally literal. The reason that we think that it's bad because it's illegal is because literally is just that I promise you, alcohol is worse for you drinking than psilocybin or marijuana or THC or Delta eight or any of those things.

[00:40:19] A hundred percent. It's just a societal normally placed upon it to say that this is not good because someone said that it's illegal. Bottom line is this, and this is conspiratorial. So you can take this with a grain off you want, or you can believe my, my viewpoint here. , there's no money and people getting.

[00:40:32] There's no money and people are shifting their trauma in a few sessions. There's amazing documentary on Netflix. You should check out. I don't know the name off hand. I'll give it to you guys. You can put in the link if you want to in the description, but they talk about soci specifically and after three, three rounds, people are changing their lives forever.

[00:40:46] Like people that have O C D to the point, they almost kill their baby because they're so O C D have no signs, no discernible signs of OCD anymore. From three micro doses of psilocybin. There's no money in that. There's just not so follow the money and you let you let that determine what you believe. But it's viable and I'm a living Testament to it.

[00:41:04] And I, I swear by it. I do it probably once a month.

[00:41:06] Jeremy: That's amazing. There are 4,000 questions left that we want to ask you, but we are actually out of time, we didn't even get to all the amazing, uh, things that you offer your 

[00:41:15] Chris Michael Harris: I told you guys, I told you I'm a talker. I can't stop.

[00:41:17] Jeremy: Well, we'll do it again sometime, cuz uh, obviously you, you have a lot to share and uh, and this has been a lot of fun.

[00:41:22] Um, so you are clearly a leader in, in sort of helping take care of your, your health, your, your mental health, all of that. Obviously through what you're doing with the podcast and the business, you can help people sort of live the dream chase, the, uh, the entrepreneur, entrepreneur life, all of that. So where can we learn more about you and follow you online so that we 

[00:41:40] Chris Michael Harris: Yeah, the best thing to do. Yeah, the best thing to do, if you're interested in starting a business is just check out the startup view podcast. If you're right here on, on a podcast player right here, a podcast app, the best thing to do is just go over and look up for startup view podcast startup. You like university, one word, uh, with Chris, Michael Harris, that's me.

[00:41:54] And then the last question I, the last thing I have for your audience, and this would be huge. I'd be forever grateful for you guys would do this. It takes 20 seconds. I promise you can scream at me if, if, if I lie, uh, but what Jeremy and Zach are doing. There's a lot of work guys that goes into that. It really is more than just sitting down and putting on a microphone in a headset and talking to somebody.

[00:42:11] So if you could, it's like leaving a tip for your way to your waitress. It's free to do it. Call it takes you 20 seconds. Leave them review, uh, and subscribe to the show. Those are two things that the podcast apps look for when they determine like how to show the show to other people. Right. So if you do that for them, I'd be, I'd be super. 

[00:42:27] Jeremy: and the checks in the mail. Thank you so much, Chris. for the, for that, and for everything you shared with us today and, uh, looking forward to continuing to follow you and everything you're doing on your podcast. Thanks so much for your time. 

[00:42:38] Chris Michael Harris: Cool guys. I enjoyed it. 

[00:42:39] Jeremy: Our thanks to Chris Michael Harris. He's the host of the startup you podcast. You can find links to him and his work in the show notes for this episode@thefitmess.com.

[00:42:47] And this I know has become cliche in the podcast world, but Chris literally is one of those guys I could have talked to for hours. There's so many questions we didn't even get to. Uh, but I was thrilled that we gotta spend some more time talking about, , his experience with psychedelics, with Sila Sabin.

[00:43:01] It's something that has been on my radar for a long time. And one that my therapist is constantly saying, you know, I can't officially recommend, but you might wanna look into trying some, some psilocybin because it, from everything that I've heard about it, everything that I know, everything I've read it fast, forwards therapy, like 20 years in an evening, right?

[00:43:19] Like it's, it's just an incredibly powerful healing tool again, anecdotally, from what I've heard and from what I've read in, in different research studies. If you have been considering that may, maybe this is another reason to look further that. But I also just wanna say there are other ways to get samplings of what it may offer and, and I've experienced them through breathwork through meditation, through, ,

[00:43:42] various forms of both I've, , worked with coaches on to, to get better at and to be able to go deeper. And so if, if you know, the psychedelics are maybe. Outside of your, your comfort zone and not something you're willing to dabble with. There are other ways to get a taste of it for your own, for your own healing.

[00:43:58] Zach: Just to be clear here we are not recommending that you go take psilocybin or any other hallucinogenic drug. Uh, we are recommend. You read articles about it and get curious about it and just take a look at it and then make a decision for yourself.

[00:44:16] Jeremy: From a very real and legally binding, uh, point of view. That is

[00:44:19] Zach: yes, I've done all the reading. . I'm just gonna say that of all the things I've seen about it. Like I just, I'm very excited. 

[00:44:26] But speaking of doing things to your brain that, , may or may not be good for you, , the first time I learned that most of the serotonin that goes into your brain is produced in your gut and, you know, proper gut health is required to get that, like, that just blew my mind away.

[00:44:41] I mean, or blew my stomach away.

[00:44:43] Jeremy: which mind.

[00:44:44] Zach: Exactly like that, that gut brain connection that is clearly there. And like I've seen vast, vast changes in my mental mood just by making sure I'm eating things that are appropriate for my gut health. I can't recommend enough, like going out and getting your, your gut biome diagnosed and figuring out what it is you need to do to make your gut as healthy as possible.

[00:45:10] Cuz holy shit, like. That's like antidepressants, right?

[00:45:15] Jeremy: That has moved to the top of my to-do list. There, there are folks here in town that have been, meaning for a year to look into and, and going in and visiting. And after this conversation, it's something I definitely wanna do. And it's something even in the last week, you know, I've, I've been sort of getting my nutrition dialed back in, uh, to, to where it closer to where I want it to be.

[00:45:33] And I can already feel the difference. It's just when, when you pay attention, when you track it, and when you're aware of what you're putting into your body and you're making better choices. You do, you just feel better. And so if you can find out exactly what your body needs and, and the ways that your body can better absorb nutrition, I can only imagine that the, the possibilities of how much better I can feel even than I do now, , must be endless.

[00:45:57] Zach: but with all of this, Well, let's not forget who we are or if you have forgotten who you are. Go find out what he talked about with identity was just so close to home for me, because I mean, like I said, at the beginning I lost my identity and I had to go find myself. , I think everyone should really have that deep, , work to figure out what their identity is and replace it if necessary.

[00:46:21] Jeremy: I think even, even you saying you lost your identity, I don't think accurately reflects what you went through. I think you like so many of us created a false identity in an attachment to a thing or to a title or to a, a responsibility that is in no way you, it is a set of things that you do.

[00:46:40] That people identify as who you are, and it is not, you are, you are not your job. You are not your car. You are not your spouse or, or your, your partner's partner. You are something else that functions within those relationships. And so, like you said, if you can do the work to get a little bit closer to who that is by whatever means our safe, legal, and necessary, we, uh, we highly recommend that you do that.

[00:47:06] Zach: I can tell you what I am now. Awesome.

[00:47:12] Jeremy: You know what else is awesome. Our Facebook group, you should totally join it. There you can connect with fellow fit, mess listeners for monthly challenges, accountability to reach your goals and just a, a cool connection with a lot of people on a really similar journey. And you can make fun of Zach.

[00:47:25] I keep trying to get more and more people to go in there and make fun of Zach. So please do that. There's a link to do that on our website, the fit mess.com and that's where we will be back next week with a brand new episode.

[00:47:35] Zach: See everyone.