How To Ignore The Lies Your Scale Is Telling You

Track 1: [00:00:00] The number on the scale. Why does it hold so much power over our emotions, our self-image, and even our sense 

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: We all know it's just a number, yet it continues to influence how we feel about ourselves and show up in the world.

Track 1: In this episode, we're talking with Katie Bramlett, founder of the Holistic the stories we tell our about, the stories we tell ourselves based on that number and why those stories are full of shit.

 So Zach, the number on the scale, I know as well as you do, as well as everybody, everybody does that. It is pointless, it means nothing. It is a a data point that for the most part just fucks with our head. And so that's the reason I don't usually get on the scale. But recently [00:01:00] I got on it just because I was curious and I have one of those stupid, you know, smart scales that tells you all the other information too, so you can feel really bad about yourself.

And uh, and I got on after months of going pretty hard in the gym, watching things, being really careful. dude, number went up 10 pounds and I was so pissed off. I was like, I've been so, I've been good. I've been working hard, and I just felt smacked in the face by that fucking little device on the bathroom floor.

it rocked me for like a couple days. I was just like, what's the point? Why do I work out? Why am I even if I'm just going to gain weight doing this is bullshit? And then luckily, you know, I got an email from our guest today and, uh, offering to talk about this very thing. So I'm excited to share this interview with you because I think it's very helpful.

But do you also struggle with the, the number on the scale? Does it fuck with you?

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: No, not anymore. 

Track 1: Dick, you just got it all figured out. What are you even doing here?

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: No, you have to know when to

use the [00:02:00] number 

Track 1: right? 

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: not to use the number for instance, I just took a really long weekend, went to Disney World with my daughter, and to anyone who's listened for a long time, yes, I know I have an unhealthy

relationship with Disney and I go far off far too often, but I will weigh myself before I leave on a trip like that. And then I'll weigh myself when I get back. And I know for a fact that it's bloating, it's travel,

it's all the stuff, 

Track 1: Yeah. You can't put away that many TROs and funnel cakes and come back feeling good

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: right? And,

and I eat like crap for the most part. And I always gain, I

don't know, four or five pounds from the difference. And then I get back into my routine. I drink water, I eat my healthy stuff and this and that, and

three days later it's gone.

Like it is impossible to burn that much fat

in three or four days.

It's just impossible. 

Track 1: right. 

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: So I always do that just as my data point to [00:03:00] be like I. Okay. That up and down of four or five pounds has nothing to do with the fat on my body. It has to do with 

how much water I'm retaining. know, whether or not it's hot, muggy and humid.

Like, I mean, just all of those things. What I do look at though, and I have one of those scales

too, that measures your body fat percentage, and I'm gonna caveat this with. They all suck. The number that

they report is wrong, so if you go do a real accurate one, it's gonna be way, way, way off. What it is actually good

at is the trend up and down. So if you do have one that's showing you body fat percentage, don't take the number literally, but do take the trend that's going on with it. So like if you're at 19% and the next day you're at 18.5, like there, there is a trend downward, right? You can see the trend downward, but the number is not accurate. So I'll, I'll, I'll give it that. That's useful, but everything else is just garbage. I'm the same from my perspective, [00:04:00] the same size as I was when I was in the best shape of my life I was 185 pounds, then 

I'm 210 pounds now,

and I'm the same size. And this is because I added weightlifting and building muscle and things like that, and I don't think I look bigger. I'm sure I'm a little bit more defined, but like muscle adds a shit ton of weight to you. So if you're actually doing things that are building muscle, that number's

gonna go up and 

it's a good thing. 

Track 1: So the number really doesn't mean anything. It really is a matter of how you feel in your own skin, how you feel in your clothes, and not focusing on that number.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: I actually think this would be interesting. I'm actually gonna do this, so like, We're gonna put this in the podcast, so I actually have to do it. I have a picture of myself

at 185 pounds and I still have the shirt

that I was wearing in that picture. So I'm gonna put that on and I'm gonna take a

picture of me at 210 pounds and we'll post it and we'll see. 'cause like I said, I'm [00:05:00] sure

there's more definition and like maybe a little bit broader chest, but for the

most part it's the same. 

Track 1: But what about before you got all jacked? When you, when you were a, a big, heavy dude, did the number mess with you? did, was your self image, was your self worth tied up in that number? And was that the reason you went, fuck this, this, this has gotta change.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: No, absolutely not. I, I don't know. I was just always, I was always gonna be the heavy kid. 

I was. I kind of accepted it and it was, you know, if anyone's heard my story, I started running. To become part of like , a club so I could make friends and this and that. And the weight just started melting off.

And I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. And then there was a moment in there where I was looking at the weight, or I was looking at the number going, huh, I'm up five, I'm down five, I'm up five, I'm down five. I'm not, like, that was just

absolute torture for me. And then I finally figured out that

the number doesn't matter at, at the

point that I was at. 

But going up and down, [00:06:00] even, even if you have a hundred pounds to lose, though, like going up and down three or four pounds, like if you get on one day and it's, I don't know, two 80 and then the next day it's 2 84, but you've been actually putting time in at the gym, things like that, like you can see some of those 

fluctuations.

So like, don't let it kill you. don't let the number that you're reading that day determine what your choice you're gonna make next. if you've got a plan, if you're moving your body and eating healthier, the numbers will start to come down like the, it'll equalize to the point where you'll fluctuate up and down 10 pounds, and then you'll get to a point where, I'm two pounds up from bloated weight and I don't feel good. And it's different when you're, when

you've equalized. 

Track 1: All right. Our guest today is Katie Bramlett. She's the co-founder of We Shape. It's an online fitness program and community not focused on the number, on the scale. On a better relationship with yourself, which is, this is such good timing based on the conversation we just had on our last episode where I was at [00:07:00] with my own imposter syndrome, self-doubt, depression, all of that stuff.

Some of that honestly is tied up in the person I see in the mirror physically. So I was very excited to talk to Katie about her program and what it is that they do, and we started the conversation by asking her why so many of us do. Let that number on the scale define our self-worth.

Katie: oh, I mean, I always like to take it just back to the cultural values that many of us share, because I feel like the values that we subscribe to are not necessarily the values that we wanted to subscribe to specifically when we're talking about the scale. So I think that it's because a, a lot of us have defined some sense of worth from that number because we've been told most of our lives that that number is meaningful and.

What's difficult about that number is it, it doesn't define worth at all, but like on, in some way, shape or form, we have bought in some of us consciously, some of us unconsciously, to that belief that that number really brings value to who we are as a person. And I [00:08:00] think that it's, it's hard to unravel and unlayer those, those messages and, and develop a new relationship.

But I think it's an important thing to talk about and understand that we all do it rather we know it or not, and that we do somewhat tie our worth and our wellbeing to that number. And I, and I think if we can just understand that that's what's happening, it's kind of the first step in, in discovering how we could maybe go a different way and not do that.

I don't know if that's making sense.

Jeremy: yeah, yeah. So, I mean, something that's coming to me is, is like this morning I heard somebody talking about the whole concept of like, you know, money doesn't matter. You, you know, live for, live for other reasons than money. And it seems like it's always the people with money giving that advice, right?

Like, oh, it's, it's all good. Like, don't worry about the money part. And I think to some degree, weight loss can be the same thing, where if somebody is fit and is saying, you know, the scale number doesn't matter. It, it can be a hard pill to swallow if it's something that you're struggling with to, to get that weight down. 

Katie: And I think this is [00:09:00] part of the, the tricky nature of the journey that I have chose to embark on with my company because I fit a lot of the, uh, stereotypical goals that people would want to think they would wanna have in terms of the body size that I have. Um, I decided to move forward with the mission anyway because in my old business and my old fitness company, I watched thousands of people, uh, try to achieve a number on a scale.

And if they achieved it, I watched them still not have self-worth. And so for me it was more about defining what you're, to me, like somebody's body and their weight. That's a really personal thing. And I think the message that I really wanna deliver is that like, if you don't, if you can't figure out how to feel worthy in the body that you have to, the number on the scale will not bring that worthiness.

And so I think that's a very different message and a different lens in a different context. And so that is the message that I'm really hoping to get through is, and I know that that's [00:10:00] maybe easier for me to say because I do fit more of the normative, uh, stereotypical lens that people are, you know, looking through.

But watched thousands of people go through my, buy my products in the past, and I just watched person, after person after person be unfulfilled. And it didn't matter what that, if they were either like, oh, this reach achieving this goal didn't feel as good as I thought it would, or, I need 10 more pounds gone.

And I'm like, that's never gonna end. And then I had this. Really incredible experience. One time with my therapist, I always give context around my therapist because I specifically chose this woman because she made me deeply uncomfortable. And I was like, Ooh, that's, that's scratching at something. I probably need to, okay, I'm gonna go with her.

She did a lot of inner child work and I, she was very, you know, in her feeling body and like, well, and I'm more of a like, let's process data. And she's like, I'm not here to process any data with you. Um, and I'll never forget one time she said, I just wanna check in with you really quick because I know [00:11:00] this, but I'm starting to realize you might not know this.

And I said, okay. And she said, do you know that you're worthy just as you are right now? Like, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to be the best parent. You don't have to build the best business. You don't have to have, you don't have to actually do, there's no, there's no doing to be worthy of something.

And I remember going, that's not true. And she was like, no, it is true. So I think that's, that's kind of the point I'm trying to make is that cultivating worthiness is not connected to the number on the scale. And if we can cultivate worthiness, like in my opinion, people who are feeling self-worth, intrinsically want to care for their body in a meaningful way.

And when we don't start with that intention and go down that path, instead we go down people, society, Instagram, social, everything is telling me I need to be this number and my body has to be this way. And we go from that lens, [00:12:00] you're going down a path that is seeking external validation

Jeremy: mm-hmm.

Katie: and do, and then we, and then we go, oh, I can't do it.

Help me get motivated. I hate that word. Help me get motivated. I'm like motivated, like, like let's go down the other path where we're, where we start with learning how to cultivate. Worthiness and from the place of worthiness will be intrinsically inspired to just want to take care of our body without the end goal of having a number on the scale.

Very different paths both involve movement and exercise, but extremely different intentions

Jeremy: This is something we, we come across a lot as the idea that, you know, when, when you are trying to live up to the expectation, to the external validation, to whatever the goal tells you, you know, it's gonna do for your life, that you operate from a place of self punishment, and that can only last for so long and eventually backfires because you either give up or, or it just, it doesn't work out the way you thought it was going to.

But if you're operating from a place of worthiness, self-love, whatever, you're, you're just feeding into that you're, because you [00:13:00] love yourself, you're taking care of yourself because you love yourself, you're not going to make that, you know, nutrition choice or, or whatever is

Katie: you're not gonna judge yourself for eating the piece of cake.

Jeremy: There's that, there is that part.

I, I struggle with that myself.

Katie: the idea of that like food is a moral thing is my, blows my mind. Like it doesn't matter what you eat, you're not a good or bad person. If you eat something that our society labels as bad food, that there's no such food is just food.

Your, you, you as your worthiness as a person does not derive from that decision. So yeah, lots of,

Jeremy: So how do you get to that point? How do you start from a place of maybe self-loathing, somewhat, you know, maybe just dissatisfied, just wanting whatever it is you believe you're supposed to have. How do you convince yourself that you are worthy and you're okay right where you are?

Katie: well, I think just acknowledging, so if we're talking in the context of like someone's experience with working out or fitness, I think starting with the [00:14:00] understanding that. This idea that I will get to a certain weight is an illusion of fake, what I call fake fulfillment. Honestly, like if we can acknowledge that and wrap our mind around that.

And then I like to tell people to crack the door to curiosity. Meaning like, if I'm just open-minded enough, will a new idea arise that I can evaluate the belief systems that I've been subscribing to? So the idea that I'm gonna lose weight because this is what I've been told will be the healthy thing, or this is what I've been told will make me feel good about myself.

Or, you know, I can stop comparing myself to other people. 'cause I'll finally meet the, the standard. , that is a goal that is not predicated on anything inside of you that's like a belief system that we're, that we're subscribing to. And so I'm trying to offer people, like, that's only one belief system.

And I, and I love to use this, um, study that they did on the dishes. There was the study that I heard about, it was like, They wanted to see how many different ways there were to do the [00:15:00] dishes. And I thought they were gonna say like, there was five or 10 ways and there was like over 200 ways or something crazy.

And I thought if there's over 200 ways to do the dishes, there is infinite number of ways to have a perception around health and wellness and my body and body image. And so I just encourage people to crack the door to curiosity and know that that belief that you've had about your body is only one option.

Yes, many of us subscribe to that option, but there's infinitely more options out there. And I think that just acknowledging that what we've subscribed to may have not been by choice and that there are other options, and that I wanna keep an open mind is enough to get the ball rolling. I don't think that, not like too many other things need to be quote unquote done to get that self-worth.

I think it's just an o uh, a willingness to have an open mind about a different path.

Jeremy: So the, where this gets fuzzy for people is the idea of self-worth, self-acceptance, all these things and, and all of the different ways to approach them and [00:16:00] health. Many people will go to the doctor, they'll get the test done, and they'll find out you're fine. But that's fine in comparison to where the rest of the country happens to be.

And if the rest of the country is in an unhealthy place, you are just like the rest of them. So how do you balance, you know, a, a perception of weight loss that you might need based on whatever belief system you have versus health If, because your doctor will likely tell you everything's fine, but in 20 years down this path, you may not be.

So how, how do you balance health with that, that image that you're trying to

Katie: I mean,

Jeremy: goal?

Katie: I think you still have to be curious, right? , because. I have, I feel like we're so in a culture now where, and maybe I've been seeing this WWE therapist too long, but, um, we're in a culture that is so, like we know that we know the data, we know the science, and I just kind of wanna like, question that a little [00:17:00] bit.

Like what we know today and what we know a hundred years ago. Like how much of the overlap is still there? Not a lot.

Jeremy: Yeah. Not much.

Katie: And so I I, it's a, first of all, I think the, it's a very complicated question that you're asking because it's so individual. So you could have somebody who has gotten so much joy and fulfillment out of life, who has so much self-worth, who has not so much self-judgment, who has so much community and they could live to a hundred.

And then you can have another person who has checked every single health box and they're living to 70. It's like, Wait a minute, like why is, does that exist? Those are both very feasible. So to say that it's only this like really cut and dry prescriptive, like eat this and exercise, and that's what determines longevity.

Jeremy: Mm-hmm.

Katie: Um, I, I don't know. I have curiosity about that. And, and so I'm definitely like, I don't want you to think I'm side swiping your [00:18:00] question, but I just, I feel like there's so much that we don't know, and I think that staying true to like what, you know for yourself, like if you really ask yourself like, or, or some of the behaviors that I'm participating in really deeply serving me, or, or, and, and if you can really get honest and you're like, no one, one of those behaviors isn't, and you can say, I wanna investigate that more.

I wanna understand that part of myself more and, and take it one thing at a time. I think that, that, that can really pave a different path. Um, I, I recently had a guy on my podcast who's like the top my, in my opinion, on the top functional medicine practitioners in our country. I happened to meet him at a, a mutual friend's birthday and I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I get to meet you.

And I

Jeremy: Now, now I'm curious who, who was

Katie: Uh, uh, Chris

Jeremy: Oh, okay. Cool.

Katie: who? Chris cre? Yeah. Um, and he was like, yeah, I'm kind of doing some different work. And I was like, well, tell me about that different work. 'cause I'm like, this is the science data guy. Like anytime I ever had a question about a health related thing, I would type in [00:19:00] the question and then I would put Kris Kresser and there would likely be like a peer reviewed research study that gave me all the data I needed to fix my health thing.

And he was like, I started realizing that I would get really chronically ill patients, right? Because he was like, the code cracker, I'm gonna help you figure everything out. And he would give them these really prescriptive like, eat this, do this, have this supplement, do this thing. And he was like, I just noticed that like some people would get better, but some people wouldn't.

And it just baffled my mind and I started, I. Discovering that there was so much more than just take this supplement, go on this run. And when I started telling people to like seek joy in their life or seek pleasure in their life, or create deeper connections with their community, like, that's when I actually started noticing people's health really change.

Jeremy: Yeah.

Katie: And so this is a complicated topic that you bring up around like, well, well, your doctor says this, and if you know this beha, it's like, do I think that we should be mindful about how we treat our body? Because there could be [00:20:00] consequences. Absolutely. But do I think that's the only factor? Absolutely not.

Jeremy: Good answer. Sideswipe away that that's, that's what we're here. No, it's, no, it's wonderful.

Katie: complicated, it's a, it's a, it's a,

Jeremy: it's a difficult question to phrase too. 'cause it, I don't, I don't mean for it to, to sideswipe anyone who's doing any kind of work, but there is this balance where, you know, there's, there's all the, the, uh, you know, the, the self-love, the love your body at any size, movement, all this stuff.

But if there is data that says that could be damaging, you know, I worry about people that it will damage them if they don't do something differently. And, you know, you can love yourself

Katie: And I am arguing that the neurotic health nut, which is the person I used to be, is just at equally at risk if they're forgetting other things.

Jeremy: No, absolutely. That's, that's a fantastic point. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about your journey and how you got to here and then how we shape came to be.

Katie: So yeah, my co-founder and I used to run a different fitness company. We used to sell like products that were aimed at people getting toned bodies and [00:21:00] six packs, and after thousands of customers later, you know, the business was thriving. We had made the ink 503 times we were scaling, we were doing well.

There was a lot of things to celebrate and I like to say that, you know, my Instagram life looked great. Um, but there was just something inside of me that pulled and nagged at me that, that came from like a deep sense of like, I'm still not feeling like this is quite right. And when I was talking to my partner about it, he and I were like, we need to just do something that's rooted in something that's better for the body.

Like getting people to go pump their muscles and, and exert their body till they wanna throw up and sweat and get praise for that type of exercise isn't probably what's actually best for the human body. So we thought, okay, well what do, what do we do if we develop a product that is rooted in what's actually best for the human body, not for what we have called exercise

Jeremy: Yeah.

Katie: and labeled it the best?

Right? So we developed this technology driven product, um, that is rooted in movement. So we focus on, uh, four pillars of movement, which [00:22:00] are strength, flexibility, um, balance and coordination. We developed this technology that can, we have all these different video movement files and people push play and in real time they can say, oh, that movement feels too hard.

And we'll grab a different video, same movement, but maybe easier for, for, uh, form of it. So it's complicated behind the back, in the back end, but on the front end, people just push play and then they get a extremely customizable workout. But again, it's not rooted in, let's see how many reps you can do. No pain, no gain.

In fact, we have the opposite philosophy, like if you are in pain, there's a problem. And so I like to think about this as like an approach to, to a fitness program that's sustainable throughout your life. Not something that's setting you up for an injury later on. It's something that's getting you to be mindful about how you're moving your body and how you connect with your body.

And we launched the product and that was going pretty well. And then I thought, well, it can't just be about get this personalized workout, like it still doesn't feel complete to me. And then I really [00:23:00] started dissecting my own experience because I was like a health nut. I had control over every single food item that came in my home.

Every single thing that I ate, like if I ate cake the night before, I was doing exercise the next day, like that was my form of punishment. I just had it com. I just, psychologically and emotionally I was really intertwined in a really toxic dynamic with myself. And then I was getting praised and validated from the outside world that said, you're so healthy.

So it was really complex to dissect because I was getting so much positive reinforcement. So along my own personal journey, I discovered sort of this idea behind these toxic messages and the diet culture and the exercise culture. And then we slowly started to also build this product upon a mission, which is exposing some of the toxic diet culture and exercise culture that we live in, so that people can unsubscribe to that they can come to our community and and pave a new path in wellness, which is connection with self and allowing people to decide what that means for them.

So people will come to me and be like, well, how many times a [00:24:00] week am I supposed to work out when I join your product? I'm like, I don't know what feels good for your body? And they're like, wait, what? It's like we've lost like complete ability to just check in with ourselves and trust that infinite wisdom.

And it blows my mind. They're like, oh, what should I do with my diet? I'm like, I don't know. I don't have a diet. They're like, what? What do you mean? I'm like, listen to your body. Your body will tell you what it likes and what doesn't. Like, it's like, can't, we can't fathom that.

Jeremy: Yeah, yeah.

Katie: But it's given me so much personal freedom, like the amount of time I used to spend in my energy and thoughts around what am I gonna eat and when am I gonna work out and am I, he like the, like my brain has so much more capacity for other things now, and I just don't worry about those things anymore.

Jeremy: Totally. That's amazing. So what does, uh, what does success look like for a client then, if there's not a prescription, if there's not, you know, do this this many times and you'll achieve it. Like, so what does, what does it, what does success look like going through this program?

Katie: I have completely redefined success in my own personal life. And I think that it comes through in my company. And what it [00:25:00] is, is the more I connect with myself and the more I allow my internal voice to drive the decisions that I make in my life and the path that I go down, the more quote unquote success I feel.

And so, um, our program, I think, invites people into that world and gives them permission to check in with self and to build that self-trust and that permission to, you know, go down a path that's for them, even if it's not aligned with the path they thought that they should go down based on someone else's opinion.

Jeremy: Do you have an example of that? Is there a client that you've worked with that highlights this in, in a

Katie: Absolutely. Um, I had this 70 year old woman. Tell me one time, uh, you know, I have done diet after diet program after program for for 60, you know, 50 years. And every time I looked in the mirror, I had my mom's voice, my sister's voice, my friend's voice, my boyfriend's voice, my husband's voice telling me that I needed to do more work out more, do this more change your body, get to a lower pants size.

The number should say this on the [00:26:00] scale. And after I was with you guys for a month, I now look in the mirror and I don't hear their voices anymore. I hear my voice and my voice tells me I'm worthy and I am able to do whatever I need to do and listen to my body in a way that I've never listened to it before.

And she said it's the greatest gift that she's gotten from the program was that permission to let it be her voice and not other people's voices coming through.

Jeremy: Do people have a hard time finding that voice?

Katie: Oh my gosh. I believe I always have this analogy that there's like two dials on the inside.

Jeremy: Mm-hmm.

Katie: Um, when you're born, the internal dials turned up to 10, right? Babies are really good at this. If they're hungry, they're gonna cry. They're not gonna be, oh, you're in a meeting. I'm sorry. I'll just sit over here and wait for you to finish.

Um, they're gonna let you know, um, the external dial is, is down to like a zero or a one at that point, right? And then I think as we grow up the dial switch, um, and so I think it's extremely hard, but I think to know that those two dials internally exist, the dial that is coming from the outside and then the dial that's [00:27:00] coming from the inside, and to just put that intention out there, I wanna, I wanna turn that internal dial up.

I wanna start living more for me and what I know is true for me and not necessarily what I hear on the outside. Just that intention alone, in my opinion, like starts, starts the momentum for learning how to deepen that connection.

Jeremy: Mental health plays a big part in all this. Zach and I talk about how, you know, our, our physical movement, whether it's going to the gym or riding a bike or paddleboarding or whatever we're doing, that's where we do a lot of our mental health work by moving that energy, getting it, you know, used in, in a better way than sitting at a screen all day.

So talk to me about how that, uh, how this helps with mental health. I mean, obviously that, that example is a wonderful one where you can look in the mirror without all those voices and, and the story you tell yourself beyond that. Tell me more about like, the mental health aspect of, of how your program helps people.

Katie: Oh man. Yeah, I mean, Well, first of all, one of the reasons I included community, so we have daily calls with our program so people can call and they, we have like these calls, uh, that we call, [00:28:00] we share calls where it's just literally connecting with people and sharing how your day's going. We have coaching calls where people can call and ask questions about movements.

We have podcast discussion groups. I find that being able to connect with people who are deciding the same thing, like those old paths don't serve me anymore and I need to connect with people who kind of are going down this other new path. I think that deeply contributes to emotional wellbeing and mental health.

Right, because it's like I. We, we still want validation in some way, shape, or form. And so to say, this is what I'm feeling called to do on the inside. And I'm finding people who are shared in that experience. It, it's a way of listening to yourself, but then also having community. So I think that the community element really plays a part in the mental health aspect of our company and the wellbeing.

And you know, I was always fascinated, there was a neuroscientist, Dr. Wendy Suzuki, who had done a study on uh, what was the most important factor for longevity. And she had done a lot of research in exercise [00:29:00] science. And I think she had even said on this thing I was watching that was like, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be exercise, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna just see what happens.

And it wasn't exercise, it was at the top three I think. But the number one was connection with community. And she really highlighted that it was not necessarily connection like with your best friend, but she defined connection with like saying hello and good morning and having chitchat with a barista.

At the coffee shop that you go to. And so to know that really shaped my perception on how important community is, not only for our own mental wellbeing, um, but also for our own physical wellbeing. And so that's one of the reasons we added that about six months ago.

Jeremy: That's so interesting. Uh, one of my favorite authors, Johann Hari, I'm not sure if you're familiar with his work, but he talks about how, you know, the, the addiction or the, the opposite of addiction is connection. And, and it is a deep loss of connection that drives us to addictive behaviors and unhealthy behaviors because we're looking for that feeling that we get from connection with [00:30:00] others.

So that's an incredibly powerful thing to, to implement for your community. It's something I know of. I have a small community myself where I can share, like, I can just share that, you know, Hey, I'm struggling and, and it's not about fix me, it's not about help. It's just about, I I hear you,

Katie: Hold space for me. Yeah.

Jeremy: Yeah. It's, it's so powerful to have that place to share those feelings and that. That just goes so far in helping people through that part of, of this journey.

Katie: Yeah, we have found the community element of our, of our product to be extremely valuable and, um, I, I, I watch person after person just get so excited to see their friend on the call or it just, it just offers people a place. I, I mean, what I really wanted to do is just offer people a place to say, I'm accepted here.

Like I, I, I'm welcomed here no matter what. And it reminded me of like this idea or this thought that I have had around like most programs that you join with like a goal in mind. Like, I'm gonna lose this many pounds. It's like, that's what the [00:31:00] focus is on. And so, like, to me, they're sent a lot of those products and companies are sending a subconscious message that you're here to change yourself and we're gonna watch you along that journey and hold you accountable.

Well, what happens if you don't change? Like, are you not accepted in that community anymore? And so what I like to offer on day one is like, we are just accepted for who you are. Like, we're not asking you to change the number, we're not asking you to exercise the number of times per week. Like, I had a, a woman on a call who was like, oh, I didn't know if I could come, you know, I haven't worked out for two weeks.

And I said, okay, sir, you, you're a human. And life got in the way, like, She was ready for us just to give it to her. And I was like, Nope, not gonna happen here. Like there's nothing that people need to do in order to be accepted and welcome here. And I think there's a lot of strings attached to a lot of programs where the intention is to change something about your body.

And I think it's, we're not even like, it's not like a conscious string, but it's there. And so I just wanted to offer a place where people could feel acceptance on day one all the way through their journey, regardless of what happened with their body.

Jeremy: And, and that's helpful because when you do rely [00:32:00] so much on external validation, getting that from someone can show you, oh, I, I am a person of, I, I can start to do that for myself. I don't necessarily need it as much, and that can just sort of help move the rock down the hill a little bit.

Katie: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

Jeremy: Uh, tell me, I, so I wanna know more, more about the program because obviously this is something that would be very helpful for a lot of people.

Uh, if for whatever reason it doesn't work out for them, let's talk about just some basic things people can just do today to start down this path, and then we'll get into the program and how it can accelerate that.

Katie: Uh, I mean, I think just, oh gosh, so many of my things are around beliefs, right? Because I think that having the belief that exercise is punishment or exercise is meant to harm you, like, or that you have to push through. So I just evaluating your belief around why we exercise and trying to understand what is my relationship with exercise like, just asking that question and if it's like, if there's not something that's like, it's a beautiful experience where I get to like connect with my body and enjoy my time.

[00:33:00] Like if it's not that, then I think that there's some, there's some dissecting that probably needs to be done.

Jeremy: I don't think I've ever said that to myself in the gym.

Katie: I, I, I mean, I encourage you to, because I feel like, you know, there's so many ways that we can go about this and going about it as a form of torture, like does not have to be the way. Remember, there's 200 ways to do the dishes. So there's more than 200 different ways we could approach our, our workout routine.

I also think that it's important, like if you're struggling to, to get there, just find a friend and move with them in, in a way that feels joyous for you. I go on a lot of hikes, I go on a lot of walks. I, but always with a friend. So like I get to kind of get two for one. I'm doing that, that community and that connection, but I'm also out in nature and, and, and do something that you feel like you could enjoy.

I mean, what a foreign concept. Like we get to enjoy movement.

Jeremy: right. Totally.

Katie: giving you permission to enjoy movement. So getting together and making connection with community and going on a hike or a walk or being out in nature is, is also a really great place to start.

And, and then [00:34:00] also like, not like mindlessly doing that.

Like be mindful that like, I'm moving my body and I'm enjoying this, and I'm connecting with my friend. Wow. Now I can make that connection in my brain that this doesn't have to be torture. And then that's only gonna inspire me to do it more. So make that connection in your mind.

Jeremy: absolutely. All right. Tell me about reshape and where we can learn more about that and, and how to sign up.

Katie: Yeah. So for all your listeners, we have a two week free trial. If they're interested, they can go to we shape.com/fitnesses. Uh, we're on all social platforms. We have two social accounts. We're at We Shape, which is all movement-based related content. And then we're at, we Shape Podcasts, which talks a lot about the beliefs and sort of the social, psychological, and emotional elements of working out and forming a community.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: Thanks to Katie Bramlett from Wes Shape. can find links to her and her work in the show notes for this episode@thefit.com. I just wanna, really hit on something that she talked about in that there's no one right path to health and wellness and like, this [00:35:00] is the thing that you, you and I talk about all the time that we've tried a thousand things and maybe 20 of them actually work for us, but of those thousand things, 20 other things, work good for the next person, 20 other things work good for the next person. It is complex, it's individual, , it's really being curious about you as a person and what works well for you and trying new things and being okay with being wrong and not following like whatever fad diet it is. But, you know, I think that has made such a huge difference in my life in just not even in health and wellness and career and family and being a dad and like all these things.

It's like, You are setting your own path. Follow some guidelines, find what works right for you. But you know, finding some blog and following it to the letter does not mean that you are doing the right thing for your body.

Track 1: And also like the central point of this whole conversation, the idea around the, the number on the scale and the [00:36:00] influence that it can have. This ties into what we talked about just the other day too, is just finding the ability to accept yourself wherever you are is going to be a, a faster way to get where you want to go rather than beating yourself up for what that number on the scale says, right?

Like there's just this cultural messaging about how much you're supposed to weigh, whether. And if that number doesn't match up with what is socially acceptable or what is the ideal. It's really easy to get tied up in. I suck. I'm not good enough. Or your position of, I'm just always gonna be the, you know, the fat guy or the heavy guy or whatever.

You, you can just get sucked into those stories. And so if you can find a way, and this is something I work on every day, to have a little compassion for yourself, have a little self-acceptance, operate from that place of self-love instead of self-hate, it's gonna be a much more rewarding and effective journey.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: Wait, I'm supposed to

love myself. 

Track 1: If you can, it's not always easy.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: Uh, interesting. I think I've been doing it wrong for a while.[00:37:00] 

Track 1: uh, you should read a book on that. It might be helpful. I don't know,

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: Hmm. I wonder if there's any recommendations.

Track 1: Well, I have a recommendation. You can sign up for our newsletter and get all kinds of helpful tips. Stay up to date on the show and get bonus clips from the episode. can do that on our website@thefitmass.com in the show notes for this episode. that website is where we'll be back in just a few days with a new episode.

Thanks for listening.

zach-tucker-_1_09-06-2023_142144: See everyone.