In this raw, candid episode of The Fit Mess, hosts Jeremy and Zach have an open discussion about Jeremy's battle with depression, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk. He shares his struggles with anxiety and isolation at recent entrepreneurial...
In this raw, candid episode of The Fit Mess, hosts Jeremy and Zach have an open discussion about Jeremy's battle with depression, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk. He shares his struggles with anxiety and isolation at recent entrepreneurial events, where he felt different and inadequate compared to others. Zach provides perspective by focusing on Jeremy's progress over time, avoiding unproductive comparisons with others. Their conversation dives into beneficial tactics like self-compassion, adding structure through routines, reframing negative thoughts, and utilizing social support.
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[00:00:00] You know that feeling where it seems like everybody else has it all figured out.
And when you look in the mirror, all you see as somebody who's lost. Trying to figure out how to fit in how to be like them. How to be successful or at least happy.
Maybe I'm the only one that goes through this, but it's something that I have been absolutely struggling with. For a long time, if I'm being honest, But for the last week, that feeling has left me in a deeper, longer depression Then I've been in, in quite a long time.
So when Zach and I sat down to record this episode, he could tell something was off. He could tell something was wrong. And so rather than recording the episode we had planned. He simply asked what's up. And what you're about to hear is the vulnerable conversation that followed that question. And hopefully some advice that not only helps me, but if this is something you're struggling with too. I hope that there's some relief and maybe some answers for you as well [00:01:00]
So quickly for those of you that are new to the show, as the intro you just heard alluded to, uh, I do struggle with depression. It is something that I have. Dealt with my entire life. It is triggered by any number of things. And sometimes by nothing, sometimes I literally wake up and it's there. Sometimes I go through my day and everything's fine. And all of a sudden it just comes crashing down. in this case, I think I do know what the trigger was that sent me down this spiral. And we'll get to that in just a few minutes.
But I've always wrestled with showing this side of my depression. I can always talk about it after the fact when. Things are fine and I've gotten through it and I can come to the show and share with you what I did or what tool I use to manage it and get through it quickly.
But right now, I'm still in it. The conversation you're about to hear between, , [00:02:00] Zach and myself was helpful. It helped shine some light on how I got here. But climbing my way out has been difficult.
And it always bugs me. You know, when I see people that do have. Mental health issues talking into their phone about it while they're, you know, sobbing and weeping and, and having that breakdown or wrestling with it. And if, if that's what works for them. Cool. That's never felt authentic to me and nothing about this. Was staged, nothing about this was planned. This literally was, we had happened to hit record. And Zach knew something was up and just said, man, what is up? What's going on with you?
And it felt good to have that lifeline. And so because of that, I opened up. And this is what I said.
Jeremy: So I'm struggling to be okay with me. I was trying to write it out so that I could stop the noise in my head, but I think it started a podcast movement where, you know, I'm surrounded by thousands of [00:03:00] people that my perception is. If they're all more successful than me, they all have their own business. They're all just trying to find a way to make it better. And over the, you know, four days, the creep of, I don't belong here.
I'm not good enough for this crowd, this is for other people. Started to show up and, uh, That was tough. It's tough to have been doing this kind of work for as long as I've been doing it and to feel like everybody else figured it out faster. And, uh, so that was that, right? That's, that came and went. Normal travel anxiety stuff that we've already talked about. Uh, and then I got home. [00:04:00] And there's just, there's always a transition of, you know, I've been on my own for four days and now I've gotta like assimilate back into daily life with other people.
And that's fine. That's normal. But, you know, I'm still not back on my routines since I'm, I'm judging myself for that. But then there was a community event here. , we live in this little gated community and there was a, a concert in the park and it was basically a cover band. So I'm, I'm there and I'm watching this band and at first everything was fine.
Everyone was kind of on the same level. I. Then I started looking around and realizing like, everyone here owns the home they live in. Everyone here has a level of wealth and success that I have not attained.
Zach: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy: And so I started, you know, feeling bad about that. And as the night went on, people started drinking, loosening up, dancing. [00:05:00] And the longer I was there, the more I felt like an alien. I was like, I don't, I don't know the lyrics. I don't know the language. I don't know the culture. I don't know how these people do this. How do they just interact and have fun and enjoy all of this? And even watching the band, they were very good.
They did a great job. They played for two hours, maybe even longer. Did a great job. I was looking around at the crowd of maybe, you know, 200 people that were there, maybe less. And I started going like, as a podcaster, I'm a cover band, right? Like, I'm not Taylor Swift. I'm not filling arenas around the country. I'm playing the concert in the park to the people that know me. And so [00:06:00] that started to. Mess with me, and it's been, it's been a while since the, the voices in my head that tell me all these things about myself have been there. It's been a, it's been a few months and all of a sudden they're really loud. And even now, like I'm, I'm anxious sitting here talking about this, like, I feel nervous. Like a tightness in my chest.
Zach: You're being vulnerable. That's fair.
Jeremy: But even preparing for this, right, like this, I didn't necessarily plan to talk about this, but in the end I think it's just, you know, I feel like half my life is gone and I haven't figured out how to play the game yet. and I'm tired of advice, you know, I mean, that's, that's what we do here. But I, all these things I follow, you know, all these, these authors books, courses.[00:07:00]
Zach: Yeah.
Jeremy: Tweet after tweet, post after post book after book of all you have to do is, and for years I was like, yeah, yeah. All I have to do is, but now my reaction almost universally is, fuck you. Share something, be a human being. Stop telling me what I need to do. Billionaire to be more like you.
Zach: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy: Share with me how hard it is. Tell me, you struggle, act like a fucking human being. And so that's been tough trying to figure out like, okay, well if I, if I'm resistant to advice, how do I claw my way out of this?
Zach: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy: And I know I'm not managing the energy efficiently. I'm not going to the gym. I'm not. Challenging myself physically, and I know that, that for the, for me, I know that works,[00:08:00] but somehow it's still not enough to make me go. It's not enough to make me get back into my routine, and it's only been a few days, but you know, then the advice that shows up is. Listen to your intuition. Listen to you know yourself, know what you need to do. Myself wants to sit on the couch and play fucking video games. That's what myself wants to do. Myself, does not want to go to the gym. I want to go to the gym to feel better mentally, but also because I feel like I'm not good enough and that somehow that's gonna change, that I want to eat better because I don't feel like I'm good enough and somehow that's gonna change that. I wanna meditate because somehow that's gonna change me and make me something better than what I am. I don't know how to flip the switch and just be okay with who I am. Like why am I not enough?
Zach: I'm not gonna give you any advice,
Jeremy: Well, thanks a [00:09:00] lot, Dick.
Zach: You're comparing yourself to outside forces instead of comparing yourself to. Or who you were 12
Jeremy: But even that like why wasn't me 12 months ago? Good enough? Why wasn't me 10 years ago? Good enough?
Zach: they were all good enough. You're just comparing it to.
Jeremy: I just don't know how to marry the ideas of I'm good enough with constantly striving to improve.
Zach: Because improvement is for a future now you, where you are right now is just where you are, no way you can change who you are right now. can only change the person you're gonna be in the future.
Jeremy: But. And this is maybe my head playing games with me, but no [00:10:00] matter what I do, whether I go to the gym four times a day, eat the right things, meditate like a Buddha and I'm, you know, the picture of, of health and fitness in 10 years, or I sit on this fucking couch and play, you know, video games 10 hours a day
in 10 years. Which me is good enough. Why isn't the guy on the couch with the video games good enough?
Zach: Because you have ambitions beyond that,
Jeremy: And maybe I'm afraid of them.
Zach: you're very much afraid of them. It's been a constant theme with us.
Jeremy: I don't know how to get past that.
Zach: You need to start with being okay right now.
Jeremy: Oh, that's all.
Check. Moving on. Alright, next
Zach: right? Are you alive? Are you breathing? Do you have food? Is your family taken care of?[00:11:00]
Jeremy: ish?
Zach: Are they all okay?
Jeremy: Yeah, ish.
Zach: Okay. You're good. Your family's good. You're okay. Don't fucking compare yourself to me or anyone at pod fuck or whatever the name of the thing was. anyone else has been doing this for years and years and years and or two months and figure like just no one else, just you.
You're okay now. Three years ago you were not okay. Four years ago or whenever you stopped drinking, you were not okay,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: and you did the things you needed to do to be okay, and now you're okay. . You are right where you have to be.
Jeremy: Well, it's funny you mentioned the, the not drinking thing too, because that was like, you know, at this, at this concert, every now and then there's like a line, you know, where, where my head just wants me to believe something and it just kept banging louder and louder. Your sobriety is a prison I.
Zach: I don't think so.[00:12:00]
Jeremy: I don't think so either. But in that moment, that was what my brain wanted me to believe because it just kept saying in this, you know, in this environment, in the past, a few beers and, and you're yucking it up. You're making friends, you're having a great time, and I'm watching everybody around me yucking it up, having a great time dancing like idiots.
Don't get me wrong, drunk or sober, you will not get me to dance. It's, I'm not, it's, it's not about wanting to dance like nobody's watching because somebody's always watching, but it's about that freedom that I see in people that still live the way I used to. Like, it's, it gets hard for me to believe my own bullshit sometimes where I'm like, This harder path is better than that guy who's having the time of his life.
Zach: Mm-hmm.
Jeremy: Like that logic part of my brain is like, he's having fun. I'm miserable. Who's playing the game better right now?
Zach: Again, all the negative things that are gonna happen to that guy [00:13:00] because of what he did,
Jeremy: Right?
Zach: right? I mean, alcohol is poison. It's straight up poison. You know how to deal with your emotions to a point now where like you, I'd be willing to bet that you could. have one or two on occasion, and you'd probably be fine.
Both of us, and I even have the problem myself, like every now and again, I'm like, oh, well I drink now so I don't feel good. I can go drink.
Jeremy: Mm-hmm.
Zach: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not a like you probably could, like you've done the hard work
Jeremy: No, I put those guardrails up now like I I with other things. I'm like, this, you know, how, how can I deal with this painful emotion and there's all the defaults? And I tell myself, Nope, we don't do that anymore. Now we sit with this fucking horrible feeling. And let the tears build and let your heart race in your chest, get tight and panic and start to freak the fuck.
I mean, I, I was like on the verge of a panic attack at this thing, and the more that I [00:14:00] freaked out about it, the more I felt trapped in my chair. Like I just kept thinking, just leave. You can leave anytime you're an adult human being, you can walk away and go home.
The more that I like overanalyzed it and overthought it.
I sat there and was just like, I can't leave. You gotta get through this. You can power through, you can do this, you can get through this thing. And it just kept getting worse and worse and worse before finally the thing ended and I went home and just went into a dark room and fell asleep. 'cause I just worked myself up into, you know, nearly a panic attack.
Zach: You can leave though.
Jeremy: I know, I
know.
Zach: Removing yourself from the situation is totally an option.
Jeremy: I know it. I know I can. It's super logical now in that moment, I, it was like I was chained to it.
Zach: Yeah, but again, you're comparing yourself to others
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: and you're comparing yourself to a prior you that was not okay
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: as well. I mean, think about that. Like you're, you're going, Hey, I used to be able to yuck it up when I had a couple of drinks, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:15:00] But that dude was like, nah,
Jeremy: He was a fucking mess. He was a fucking mess. I mean, I'm still a fucking mess. Don't get me wrong. I'm just a slightly cleaner mess than I used to be.
Zach: You're a fitter, you're a fit mess.
Jeremy: that?
Zach: again, you're okay. Everything's fine. Who gives a fuck about all those people at Pod Fest? Everyone is there putting on their best fucking mask every single one of them. Yes. Some of them can socialize better than you and I can. I mean, the bar's low 'cause we both suck at it, right?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: So when you
Jeremy: No, I, but I'm gonna say like you, you put on a show like you, you do a good job of laying the bullshit on pretty big.
Zach: me
Jeremy: Yeah, I was pretty impressed,
Zach: when.
Jeremy: uh, multiple times. But, you know, in car rides at a dinner, like you were, you were just cruising along, playing the game and I was like, God, how the fuck does he do that?
Zach: It's super uncomfortable for me. [00:16:00] I don't know what I'm saying. Like it, I am so uncomfortable and feel like I don't fit in in all those situations, and I'm just spitting shit outta my face. So to compare yourself to any of those other people, they're all just as nervous, just as whatever, just as fucking, .
Anxious about the whole thing as you are, you probably do better than a lot of 'em . ? And they're, it's all show. It's all fucking show. So the sooner you realize that like you're not less than, you're not you, you're just as okay as they are because all of them are pretty much a shit show too.
So again, fuck all those people. Think about the Jeremy who quit drinking on New Year's Day. Well actually it was the day after New Year's day. 'cause you did put a couple mimosas down.
I still remember you showing up hung over from the night before. I wasn't drinking. I remember that day very, very clearly.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: 'cause you looked miserable
Jeremy: Yeah.
Kinda like I'd look [00:17:00] kinda like I look now.
Zach: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's very, very different now. Like you, you are washed out. You are like, you are not healthy from a, a lot of standpoints. Like you're physically healthy. , you're good. You're okay. Like you're so much better than you are.
Like, think of all the progress that you've made, . And when you compare yourself to other people, you never feel like you've done enough. Right. One of my brothers still makes a shit load more money than I do.
Jeremy: Mm-hmm.
Zach: Lives in a bigger house than I do. Drives a better car than I do. Still married.
Jeremy: Mm-hmm.
Zach: Funnier than I am. Right. That pisses me
Jeremy: Why am I not doing a show with this guy?
Zach: Exactly. And for years I compared myself to him. And I was always like, I'm not good enough because I'm not at his level yet. Like he never stopped growing as I was growing. So I can't catch up with him. It's like age and now like I've, I have not caught up with him and I don't think I ever will catch up with [00:18:00] him, but that's okay because he's not me.
I'm me. And you know what? 20 years ago I was in fucking jail,
That's the only person I have to compare myself to is me.
Jeremy: Yep.
Zach: And 20 years ago, I, well, it was more than 20 years ago. It was like 24 years ago. I was in jail. I was literally in jail with no college education, nothing. No job. Nada. Not I didn't have a car. I had nothing 24 years ago. So you know what? I'm doing pretty fucking good compared to that,
Yet at the same time, I felt out of place at that conference. I felt like we were not successful at times because I was watching everyone else, right? I was doing my thing alone, like. I went and got, , lunch and I went and sat there by myself and I looked around.
Everyone else had somebody to talk to. I didn't have anyone to talk to, which led to, I don't have a girlfriend, I don't have a relationship, I have nobody who loves me. I'm a piece of shit. I'm a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, you know what? Fuck that noise. You are happier, [00:19:00] healthier, .
And you're comfortable sitting here by yourself and everyone's looking at you going, how can you, I wish I could sit there by myself. we all feel that shit, dude. We all do. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying that to discredit what you're feeling because it's valid and it's all, it's all a thing.
But you can't compare yourself to all those other people. ' generally speaking, I, I have great hopes for humanity. Most people are very self-centered and assholes. I. That's just the reality of it, right? I hope someday that we'll get to a point where like consciousness elevates and people think about other people, but most people are just self-centered and wanna look the best, be the best, better than you, right?
I mean, I spend 80% of my day. Building other people up. I just got done like, you know, hashing out an email with our finance team about why somebody deserves a pay raise to the level. I think they [00:20:00] needed a pay raise too, and they're like, well, they're just a number on a spreadsheet. No, they're a fucking person.
They're, they're valuable. They deserve to have respect, right? A lot of people are not like that, and a lot of the people that you are around like that create that energy that comes out of it. You pull that in. Like I've watched you, so you're good, you're fine, you're okay. And I know you don't, you don't want to hear that. You're fine, And those are real feelings and you need to put it into perspective.
'cause the only person you have to compare yourself to is you
Jeremy: So it probably won't hit me until I listen back to this and edit it and take out all the deeply personal stuff that shouldn't be on the tape. What I'm hearing from you in terms of takeaways from this, uh, painful conversation for me is that I am good enough, right where I'm at. I'm where I'm supposed to be. I shouldn't be afraid of my ambition. I should respect it, do what I can to achieve it, but not [00:21:00] let it. Paralyze me in the way that it has in the past.
And that not only comparison to others is something that I need to work on. Keep some perspective on. But also like absorbing my perception of others' reality, , the people that I am around and like absorbing their stuff and, and making it my own is, is a skill to develop.
'cause it is certainly something that I'm, I am, I'm a highly sensitive person and so when I am around that stuff, I feel it deeply and it's, it's difficult and painful. , and so building up a little bit better, uh, defense mechanism, putting up some, some shields might be, uh, a tool to develop. Those are my takeaways.
I hope they're helpful for anybody who, who sat through this,
Zach: The other takeaway you need to, you need to come out of this with is all of those other people, all the people that looked like they were having a good time and, [00:22:00] conversing easily and looked like they made a lot of money and looked like this and, and sounded like that they had their own shit going on too.
A lot of it's fake. A lot of it's phony, myself included. Right? I have to put on a show in those, those scenarios. So while it looks like I come off, okay, I am nervous, I don't wanna be there, I think people are judging me, all those things, so like, If it looks like everyone's successful, probably aren't,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Zach: so don't compare yourself to that 'cause it's fake.
Jeremy: All right. Well, that's a little bit, uh, different episode than we normally share. Normally we try to have, , some sort of helpful advice, something we're working on. In this case, I'm, I'm in the thick of it right now, battling a, a lot of demons, and so I thank you for your patience. While we vent this openly with you,
Zach: We are contemplating doing a group coaching call that would be similar to this, where we can talk about our problems and, and hear, hear what other people think about.[00:23:00]
Jeremy: Yeah. If you're interested in that, uh, pl please get in touch with us that you can do that through our Facebook group or our newsletter. You can get information for all of that at our website. That's the fit mess.com and that's where we'll be back in just a few days with a brand new episode. Thanks for listening.
Zach: See everyone