What Your Therapist Won't Tell You with Kelsey Darragh

Jeremy: [00:00:00] This is the fit mess conversations with world-class experts in the fields of mental, physical, and emotional health and episode. It was really important for me to go. I want to give people the thing that I wish I had had in the 17 or 19, or, you know, when I was going through the worst bouts of my shit that I would've ever experienced.

Now, here are your hosts, Zach and Jeremy. 

If you're one of the millions of people struggling to manage your mental health right now. Well, I'm glad you stopped to listen to this podcast because we have a fantastic interview for you this week. It is with Kelsey Darragh. You might know her from her many, many, many things that she does online.

Uh, perhaps most notably her podcast confidently and secure, but we are talking to her about her new book. Don't fucking panic, the shit they don't tell you in therapy about anxiety disorder, panic attacks, and depression. Those of you that have been listening for any length of time to this show, know that mental illness, depression, anxiety, these are things that Zack and I battle constantly so much of the work that we do.

On and off these microphones is about trying to better our mental health, along with all the other health challenges that we try to face, whether they're physical, emotional, spiritual, but those battles don't always have to be so serious. Sometimes you can do them with a smile. And that's why I'm so excited to bring you this episode this week, Zach, I'm probably one of the four people on the planet that hadn't heard of Kelsey Darragh before you introduced me to this book.

And, uh, I'm bummed that I didn't get to participate in this interview because you guys had a great conference. Yeah, 

Zach: [00:01:31] you really missed out. And actually, um, part of me was like, after, after we talked, I was actually thankful that you weren't there because it was like, it was a wonderful 30 minutes for me.

And I soaked it all in myself. 

Jeremy: [00:01:43] I would have just ruined it with some dumb questions about some stuff that nobody cares about. You totally would 

Zach: [00:01:48] have been a third wheel. 

Jeremy: [00:01:50] Glad I glad I stayed out of the way for you. But I, since learning about her since hearing her story, I've got to say that. Her story is one that I've always admired about people in the entertainment industry who are successful and battled mental illness.

This is something that has held me back in my career for a long time. Not, not from any external sources, but I've had opportunities to at least go after jobs that would have had me more of a, of a front and center entertainer, like a talk show host or broadcaster of some kind. And I'm always terrified of the co of the concept of.

Okay. Five days a week at 9:00 AM. You've got to have a hot take on some topic and you've got to care about it. And you've got to make however many thousands of people are listening at that time. Believe that you care about it enough to call you and argue with you about it, or agree with you or whatever.

And I'm always just like, I generally don't give a shit about most things in general. So pile on to that any given day, when you know the mental illness demons take over and go, you would probably just better off, you know, the world would be better off without you today. And the idea of getting behind a microphone and going, boy, how about those sewer rates?

Give me a call and argue with me about that. Like, it just sounds like a nightmare. So to watch someone like her. Be able to flip on a camera and be wildly entertaining and know that she's got these demons that she's wrestling with all the time. I just am, am unbelievably impressed with people that can do that.

Zach: [00:03:18] And you'll hear it in the interview. I, you know, I have actually had a conversation with my daughter about this because she has anxiety and she, she feels broken sometimes, or there she'll never amount to anything because of these problems. And it was great to actually show it. Kelsey's book and she, she always refers to it as the book with the F-word on the cover.

But, you know, we we've, I've talked to her about it and said, Hey, you know, look, it's okay to have these problems. Like we all have some of these problems, how you react to it is really where you're measured. Right. And you can have these problems and still be successful and still do great things and be generally happy.

Right. Because those of us with these mental problems are. Never fully happy, but you can be happy most of the time. Right. 

Jeremy: [00:04:07] You mentioned, uh, having a daughter and this last weekend was father's day. And as it turns out was a challenging one for both of us from, from a mental health perspective. And, and I love what you're talking about there, about how we respond to those challenges, because you, you did it right.

So share, share what you did on father's day and how you, uh, fought back the 

Zach: [00:04:26] darkness. Yeah. So it's weird. So I'm the anxiety guy, right? I I'm just super anxious, always running and I, I don't get depressed. Often I really get depressed when my anxiety goes away. So like, if I've overdone it on the CBD, which I'm known to do a few times a week, um, you know, and the anxiety goes away, you know, the depression can creep in, but something weird happened.

Like I was just super overwhelmed on Sunday with everything going on, which was weird because like I went to yoga, I was, I don't normally go to yoga on Sunday. I was having a good day and like, just this wave hit me in the afternoon. I was just like, Uh, I went from like, you know, all right, I'm having a great day too.

Like, well, you know, if I didn't wake up tomorrow, it would be okay. Right. And that doesn't happen to me very often. And it was really weird and it hit me. I was just like for like three hours and my wife even was like, why don't you just go play with Natalie in the pool? Yeah. Um, right. Whatever fun mood I don't want to, but I will, 

Jeremy: [00:05:29] if I have to, I'll go play with 

Zach: [00:05:30] my kids.

Yeah. And, you know, I got into the pool and they started moving around and splashing and swimming and moving my body and like the whole fucking thing just lifted. Yeah. And it, you know, and I think you're going to get into in a minute, but it's like, you know, some of these demons, like you always say, you know, tired muscles, quiet, dark voices, right.

What like going for a walk, moving my muscles, doing things that make me happy when I'm not feeling good or what you need, but in that moment, you will. Don't have the energy to go do it, or in my theory is you're stuck in that with, I know if I go do this, I'm going to feel better, but I want to stay here.

I want to, you know, I want this to really be my moment in the darkness and the clouds, because this is where I've been comfortable in my whole life. Yeah, that's, 

Jeremy: [00:06:26] that's a comfortable blanket to wrap yourself up in. Cause it's the one, you know, it's the one where every story you tell yourself about how you're going to be a failure or you don't deserve happiness, or you don't deserve good things in life when you've played that song over and over again for decades, it's the one, you know, and it's the one you want to keep playing because trying something else is difficult and scary.

And, you know, I had a similar situation father's day. It was some somewhat external forces, but for the most part. The experiences I was having just, I think it was kind of the same thing where, where I've just, I'm overwhelmed with the move that we're going through. My job is coming to an end in a few days, there's all this like really heavy stress that I'm carrying around.

And then, you know, father's day was challenging for a number of reasons that I don't want to get into here, but it did eventually just wear me down. And when we got home in the evening, after being out for that. You know, my kids wanted to go swimming. They want, we live right next to a lake. They want to go out on the lake and I just, I could not get over the mental hurdle of the effort.

It would take to get to kids into their swimsuits, find towels, get my own swimsuit on walk, the 30 yards to the water, get in, be cold, have them fighting with each other. Just like the thought of going through it just drained any ounce of energy I had left and I was like, I just don't have it in me. I can't.

Let's just park in front of a movie and be good. And so we did that and the whole time I felt like shit about it. I felt guilty that I didn't didn't step up for my kids and give them what they wanted on father's day. So cut to the next day, go to work. Things are sort of back to normal. I get home, continue doing more work.

And I realize I haven't moved my body in like four days. Like that's what's going on here. I've got to go do stuff. So nine 30 at night, I went and jumped in the lake and swim around for like a half an hour, came back a new man. And it's just over and over again, this lesson that we keep talking about about when you know, the tools that will get you out of that funk when you know how to move forward.

But sometimes the other voice that's gone now just stay right here in the dark. That argument between those two parts of the brain is just, it's an exhausting one, but you have to find a way. To listen to the one that's trying to propel you out of it. Otherwise you will stay stuck 

Zach: [00:08:45] in that darkness. Yeah.

But another way that you can get out of the darkness is, uh, this wonderful book that we we've got in front of us called don't fucking panic. I can't say enough. Good things about this book to the point where. You know, I think, I think I reached out to you and I was like, we have to talk to this woman. Yep.

It is a really good book around, you know, the subtitle is the shit. They don't tell you in therapy about anxiety disorder, panic attacks, and depression. And this thing is like a masterpiece. All the crazy weird shit that comes up in the lives of people living with mental illness and how you can get through them.

And it's fun. It's written by a comedian Kelsey Darragh, who is just fabulous. And we had the opportunity to talk to her about her book and about mental illness and about a couple of other things. Wonderful conversation. So let's talk a little bit about your book. Don't fucking panic, which I have to tell you my 10 year old daughter and I go through pieces of it.

I screen some of it and we do some of it, but I love this book. So I don't want to discredit doctors or professionals who have dedicated their entire lives to the study of mental health. But I really resonate with this book because. Not only are you talking about it, but you're going through it, you're living with it.

And I really resonate with that so much more than some doctors who have never been through these things. So I'd love it. If you could just start off with, you know, give us a little bit of a background on your, your background and you know, what led you to write this book? And, and I, I have to imagine there was a slight amount of imposter syndrome as you were writing.

Kelsey Darragh: [00:10:28] You don't say there's a whole chapter about that imposter syndrome. Um, first of all, thank you. Thank you for saying such nice, wonderful things. And also for giving even just like the platform to speak about this stuff. Like, especially being a dude, I think that's so valuable and needed. So like right off the bat, kudos to you.

You're great. Um, yeah, so for the book, it was like, I. First of all dropped out of three colleges. I don't have the best, uh, vocabulary. I, you know, never, uh, saw, I could never, in my wildest dreams have imagined that I would be able to write a book. So the fact that it even was like a thing that was produced and people got it.

Still my, I wake up everyday and I'm like, what the fuck? How did I, why the fuck did this happen? But you know, this book is unique in that, like you mentioned, it is written from the point of view of someone who has been through this. And when I say I've been through this, I mean, the highs, the lows, that medication, this medication, inpatient rehab, outpatient.

Suicidal ideology and misdiagnoses. Uh, you know, it, it, it was something that when writing the book, I had firmly always believed that my, you know, mental I'm making coats, mental health disorders started at a certain point in my life. In life, um, that I was always talking about online, like at Buzzfeed, in the videos I made, I'd always referenced this one point of when I was 17 on an airplane and had my first panic attack.

And I was like that for sure was the beginning of my journey. And in writing this, I realized that it had started so much longer ago in my toddler, childhood life, you know, with interviewing my parents and, uh, you know, my other family members. Oh, wait that time. I thought like I couldn't breathe. And we thought we, I was having an asthma attack and you guys rushed me to the ER and they gave me a little bit of baby volume and I was completely buying that wasn't an asthma attack.

That was a fucking panic attack. And no one in the AR thought like, Hey, maybe take this role to a therapist or like, Hey, maybe this is mental health. Like we just kind of shrugged it off and went back home. Oh, yeah, that was fucking weird. Huh. And we just didn't have the language or the knowledge about it.

You know, my parents are very liberal that it's not like they didn't believe any of this stuff existed. We just genuinely didn't know that it could start that young. And, um, really that there were any resources. Help me through that kind of stuff. So in writing the book, I actually had a lot of wake up calls and realizations and therapeutic moments of validation and recognizing, you know, how long I actually have been in the mental health gang gang as a, nobody says.

Um, but yeah, that's kind of like my backstory into. Uh, how I got started on writing the book, but, um, just in terms of like mental health, I always like to go through my, my, my diagnoses of a generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder, major depressive disorder, misdiagnosed bipolar. I got ADHD, um, starting to come to terms with some more diagnoses of just like depersonalization.

Um, do you realization those things that I'm, I'm seeing more mainstream and going like, oh yeah. Hey, better. Late than never. 

Zach: [00:13:50] Right. I am just so impressed with all that you've accomplished with, with all of these things. I, I, I live on the anxiety side too. I remember when I was diagnosed, they were like, here's the top of the chart.

You're way up here. And I was like, oh, I just thought that's how everyone operated. I thought it was normal. So I am really inspired by all the things that you've accomplished with living with that, because it is really hard to do that. Right. It doesn't 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:14:15] feel like a success. I'll tell you that. I'm sure you can relate as someone with anxiety disorder.

Like what keeps you. Successful also can be the thing that is our worst enemy, like the anxiety of good, healthy anxiety, the anxiety that every person on earth has because everyone does. And the debilitating interrupted interfering anxiety is a fine line and to like kind of skirt into it and fall into that.

And again, like think that it's a normal thing, but also being. This is not horrible. I know that this is not normal, but it's, my normal is a, a slippery slope. And like, I have a big problem with compliments. Like, I don't know how to take compliments on people who are like, wow, like thank you for this book.

Or, you know, I like the things you do because I'm kind of just like, I had no choice, but to turn. Suffering into success. Like I have no choice, but to turn pain into purpose or like I probably would have on alive myself right now. Right? Like it's always something, it's a daily thing that you have to fight against and not fight.

I don't mean fight, but you have to manage, 

Zach: [00:15:34] manage. I've always said the day that I realized that I had to stop fighting my anxiety and be friends with it, acknowledge it. Thank you. My whole life changed that day. It was crazy. 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:15:47] Like my mom used to be like, get mad at it, like tell it to go away. Like, but, you know, go against it.

Like do something, even though you're having a panic attack, like do the thing, because if you let it consume you and like, she didn't really, that was how she was able to manage her anxiety growing up. But for me, it was exactly that it was accepted since recognition, friendship. Uh, management and now I've gone through it so long and it doesn't mean that it's any less scary when it happens, but I'm able to recognize and go like, oh, I knew what this is.

Not only do I know what it is, but I know like the clinical chemical things that are happening to me, I know the name of it. And knowledge really is power to me in my, my journey. And that's why I want to drive the book. I just wanted to give people terminology and experience and go like, Hey, if this is all from you, you're not fucking crazy.

You're not fucked up. Like it has a name and, and, you know, society is starting to catch up to it and we're finally being more accepting of it. And I think, you know, I didn't plan on running mental health book in the middle of a pandemic and having it like be the thing that I think a lot of people could have used, but it, it, it turned out that way.

Even if people are listening who maybe aren't diagnosed or, or don't really think they have a problem with it, or know someone in their life that maybe struggles with management. Like I do believe this is a book that everyone can use in terms of just even like learning about what these mental health disorders or issues or whatever you want to say.

Um, R 

Zach: [00:17:29] yeah. And in your book is not a book that you just read through and take some points away. This is a workbook, like you got to put some thought into it. You gotta go into some dark places sometimes. Right. Why, why did you decide to make this a work book instead of, you know, the, the traditional, well, I read that, 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:17:49] oh, man, I love this budget because it's literally.

The time where I get to be like, like nothing else being helped me before every book that ever existed about mental health or like these self-help books were just things you read. And they tended to be very clinical, very medical sounding. And it came from like someone usually like old white dude. I can't relate to you about like social media.

Yeah. Anxiety. So for me, yeah, it was really important to make it something that was active and something that you could carry around with you kind of like the tool kit and every page is a different. Theme exercise chapter. Um, the book is split into three parts, so anxiety, panic disorder and depression.

And I did that. Not only selfishly because that's what I deal with, but because those things tend to coincide with each other in a diagnoses. Um, and you know, they can be symptoms of one another too. So it was really important for me to go. I want to give people the thing that I wish I had had when I was 17 or 19, or, you know, when I was going through the worst bouts of my shit.

But I've ever experienced. And what I realized was like someone couldn't be there to talk to you or try to work you through a breathing exercise, or you can turn on a CD or you've been listened to a YouTube video, but there was nothing like figuring it out myself. You know, I think it's a factor of me wanting to be a control freak.

Yeah. Feeling that like, the more I understood it, the less I was afraid of it. So it's a workbook because I want people when they're having a panic attack and they literally don't know what to do with their hands can turn to page 100. And there's a like connect the dots game of Ryan Gosling holding a bunny.

Because I just think that that's like a soothing image to look at the page. And there's like a, a CBT exercise or journaling from direct coloring page. I put every, uh, modality I could think of, or that I've tried before. You know, I always say like there's stuff in there that I put that didn't actually work for me, but I still wanted people to know about it because it worked for 

Zach: [00:20:01] them.

Yeah. I love it because some of the other workbooks, right. It's like, okay, here's the exact same. Exercise for chapter two and the same exercise for chapter three, the same. I love this one because it kept switching up and I was like, wait a minute. I have to think what the other side of my brain, I have to go here.

I have to go there. It was just 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:20:22] redo so happy. It's like, it's crazy. Like you, you make this thing, you spent all this time crafting this shit, and then you put it out in the world and you're like, okay, I'm done. But then you forget people read it, like use it. And then. You know? Yeah. Like I said, I don't think I'll ever get used to the idea that I bet it is something I need.

Again, 

Zach: [00:20:46] I'll, I'll just keep throwing the compliments out. This is I've I've, I've read probably a thousand self-help books to manage everything. And I find this to be like in the top five of like usefulness. It really is wonderful, which is why I wanted to talk to you. Because again, I'm still having a little bit of like, oh my gosh, I'm talking to the person.

Kelsey Darragh: [00:21:09] If that helps. Like, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this is a thing I get to do. So feelings of withdrawal. Awesome. 

Zach: [00:21:17] When you go into a book like this, though, as, as the reader, right? There's a, there's a level of curiosity that you have to have. About yourself and maybe we've just been conditioned this way over the last, you know, my, in my 40 years, you know, I was raised to be like, don't have emotions, don't talk about it.

Keep that very deep. And you got to flip it around and you have to be really curious about yourself, I guess, how have you. Gone down that road. And then how have you seen other people who are really stuck with not being curious about themselves, you know, use your book or open up and how, how do you get there?

How do you go from, I stand up and rubbed dirt on it to crying and letting everything go. 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:22:00] Uh, I wish it were just like an easy answer to be like, it just happens. Like you just get to the point or like you go through a breakup or you have a spiritual awakening, but the truth is. Self help and self recognition is probably the bravest thing you can do.

And I spent so much time running from myself. I was so terrified of myself. I was so afraid that my body and mind to produce these thoughts and feelings. I didn't, I never connected with it. I was like, I don't know what the fuck this is, but it's not me. Like I know who I am and I just, this is scary and not fun.

And like, I spent so much time and I'm not 

anti 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:22:46] medication, I'm on medication, but I did spend a lot of time putting a band-aid over a bullet hole with meds that were not healthy drinking. Oh my God. If anyone knows me from the internet, they know that I was like, Alcoholic gal wine extraordinary. Um, I was, uh, I was very avoidant while still being someone who classified as self aware because in comedy you have to be kind of self-aware and make fun of yourself.

So, you know, it's not like you just meet a therapist who causes you to. Answered questions. And you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize I wasn't really looking inside myself the whole time. It is a, I don't want to scare people away, but like you hit, you know, a rock bottom feels like, like you hit a place where you're like, I'm either going to on alive or I'm going to move and do something different.

And it was baby steps of, of course, going to therapy and talking to people about it, but making the decision. To actively inject self care and self-help into my life. And I hate to say self-care because people think it's like novel that's I don't mean like self-care that way. I mean like the deep inventory of trying anything.

So it was throwing shit against the wall. It was journaling. At one point it was meditating. At another point it was yoga. It was getting sober. It was cutting out this toxic person. Uh, drama and formed there. It was an amalgamation of just. What the fuck helps and makes you feel better. And it was not an overnight thing.

And I don't want people to expect it to be, but just having the bravery and recognition, even though fourth into a step of being like maybe every morning, I'm going to say a mantra at myself in the mirror. That sounds fucking stupid, but I'm going to try it and guess what? I see mantras every motherfucking day now.

And they are my favorite thing to come back to and just go like, oh yeah, yeah. A thought I'm having in not a fact that exists and being able to separate yourself out from stuff like that is only things I learned by actively deciding I'm going to figure this out. I'm making air quotes again. Like I want to, I want to have a better life.

I want to be a better version of me. 

Zach: [00:25:10] Yeah. Yeah. I have experienced so many times the. You know, five years ago, looking at something that I'm doing now, my, you know, five years ago, I'd been like, are you fucking nuts? 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:25:21] Y LA crunch yoga, bullshit. I am that person. I don't like it, but it's like, I, I love 

Zach: [00:25:33] it. I it's amazing how, like, being a little curious, trying new things, even if it sounds stupid, can sometimes be like this amazing thing.

You've unpacked a lot of past trauma, but you just had something happened to you recently that like, had you dive back into your book. Can you tell me a little bit about that? 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:25:52] I mean, you are getting the exclusive, but like, yeah, this is something I've not talked about. Really beyond just like posting to social media, but we had someone break into our home when we were sleeping and Rob us of a bunch of valuables, tons of equipment and computers and monies worth of things.

And some, you know, sentimental items that are like irreplaceable things. It just it's, it's annoying. It's never a good time to be robbed. It's like, I'm not so much sad as just fucking annoyed and mad and like, God damn it. You know, you're just like, oh, it's never a good time to be robbed. So yes, this last week has been a collection of moving packing.

Finding a new place, dealing with management, dealing with the detectives, they found the guy, but they haven't found our stuff yet. Like, it's just been like, it feels like a movie scene in the last week that this has happened, but yeah. The first thing that happened, even after all my years of being a mental health advocate and like therapy, the first thing was I completely fucking spiraled.

I completely went to black and white thinking. Um, what w what did I do to cause this, what could have I done differently? Um, do I deserve this? Um, am I making the right decision on a new place? Like, what if I lose everything? Because I moved this thing. I lost meetings because of, uh, having to go apartment behind and like, what if my business breaks out?

Like, of course. Tossed everything I had spent learning out the window and was like emotions first. Right. And I couldn't help it. It just is human nature. And it takes a pretty strong-willed person to go like this too shall pass. And things are just things. And what's really important is knife is here and safe and it's like, fuck, all of that.

I'm annoyed. Everything's his shit, but like truly I had to crack open my own book because I got to a breaking point where I just felt like I recognized so much of this experience needed to be seen through a lens of. This is an unusual thing. This is not how my life is. This is not how it normally is. I have to be able to separate the stress of just daily life and just being able to go like, is this stress actual like life stress?

Or is this the circumstantial stress? And just because it's really hard right now does not mean it's going to be hard forever. You know, journaling, intrusive thoughts, journaling, you know, you know, at three in the morning when I can't sleep, cause I'm like any noise or fart, like wakes me up. I'm like, oh my God.

And being like, is this true? Or is this the circumstance that has happened to me causing me to feel this way? And it's again, it's about exactly what you're saying, being just a little curious, like. This isn't actually me, but as a symptom of what's happening to me. 

Zach: [00:29:18] Yeah. I didn't have quite as traumatic of an experience, but, uh, we have a pool and I turned the lights on for the pool the other night and the whole filter at the whole thing shut down.

And it was like some circuit blue somewhere. And my daughter was having a pool party the next day. Well, no, it was kind of set me over the edge, but it was like just that one little thing. And same thing happened. Like I started spiraling and I was like, my life sucks. I'm terrible. All of these, you know, really negative things.

And I, and it took a few minutes. Let's breathe. Let's put all the things and yeah, it's just a pool. 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:29:59] So we're going to have fun no matter what, cause don't need too much to make kids out. 

Zach: [00:30:04] Yeah, no, it's at her age. She's she's 10. And like I said, we go through your book in little bits and pieces. Um, after I, I go through and like, okay, well here's an exercise and I maybe put it in a 10 year old voice.

Kelsey Darragh: [00:30:19] Oh my gosh. That's so 

Zach: [00:30:20] cool. But I, and I'll throw another compliment at you because we've talked about you a couple of times. Showing her, you know, another, another woman who is successful doing great things, but also has anxiety also has these things like you, you just learn to manage it and you can do these great things with it.

Kelsey Darragh: [00:30:43] And that's so cool. You're talking to your ten-year-old about mental health. Like I've been talking about this in interviews, as long as I can remember. I got being like, why do we not start there? In kindergarten. Why is this not part of a curriculum that maybe we learn as like very small kids? Like, oh, this is angry.

This is bad. Okay. So what if I can identify emotion? What the fuck am I supposed to do with it? And when you get to middle school, it's like all of them combined and blessed with hormones and fucking boys and shit. It's like, that's so cool that you're having that conversation. Like what a chain breaker, like what a cool thing you're doing.

Zach: [00:31:22] Thank you. My parents didn't do it with me and I remember struggling and I wish I had had your book when I was younger. So I, I want to prevent so much pain from her. 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:31:34] Yes. I, and I think like you and I like our generation really is that change, right? Like, yeah, not necessarily that they just didn't know.

And they were also shunned to be a certain like CIS hetero type of American couple. Like, I don't blame them, but it's been really interesting to go back and talk with them about it and talk with them about like chapters in the book, like, you know, The book has a lot of adult subjects like masturbation and drug use, but elicit it.

It's a conversation that I am not ashamed about my parents hearing about, because if it's helping other people then like, All you can hope for when writing something like this, 

Zach: [00:32:23] you know? Yeah. And again, I'll say it again. I really do love the book and I really appreciate all the work that you've done as we're wrapping up.

Is there anything that we didn't mention and where can people find you if they don't already know who you are? Oh 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:32:36] man. Um, I'm just Kelsey scare on all the things, all the socials. Uh, I've got a podcast of my own golf confidently and secure where we. Are not afraid to ask the silly questions and podcasts.

We're absolutely sure. We don't know everything. We do a lot of mental health stuff. We actually just did a whole month of, um, mental health, uh, in may talking about everything from ADHD to therapy, um, bipolar experience and mania. Um, so I highly suggested like you like this kind of content. Um, definitely check that out.

Um, and yeah, I guess that'd be cool. 

Zach: [00:33:14] Yeah, of course. Yeah, obviously, yes. By the book. This has been so cool. All right. Well, thank you so much for, for taking the time and to talk with me. I know this is going to go out to a lot of people, but this was really for me. So, so thank you so much for, for taking that time.

Kelsey Darragh: [00:33:32] This is great therapy.

Zach: [00:33:36] All right. That was our conversation with Kelsey Darragh. The author of don't fucking panic, the shit they don't tell you in therapy about anxiety disorders, panic attacks, and depression. All of the links to her website will be in the show notes on, on the fitness.com. You can go click on it there. The one thing that really struck me in that interview is, you know, we talked about breaking the chain, like not raising our children.

The way our parents raised us. And we actually talked about that in a previous episode, that was really, really struck me as important. Right? We have all of these resources. We have these books, we have all of this stuff that we can do better. And, uh, you know, things that we didn't have when we were kids and it was really hard growing up.

So, um, I'm really happy that we chatted about that. And, and we are making differences. You and I are both making differences. She's making a difference in the next generation. The kids know about mental health. They have tools in their belt to actually deal with it before they become an adult, as opposed to us where we're like mid thirties going, why do I hate myself?

Oh, much 

Jeremy: [00:34:40] thirties. Yes. Listen, whippersnapper. Uh, yeah. I, I, that, that, part's it out to me as well. That is such an important point. And, and I loved how she expressed that, you know, she thought her mental illness issues began. At one point, but it turned out to be many, many years earlier. And I think for, for so many people that go on this journey of, of sort of self exploration self-improvement or whatever, I think you'll find that you'll find that whatever things are holding you back, whatever struggles you're having, the more you sort of peel back the layers of that onion, you find yourself when you're like five or six and going, oh shit, I can't believe that had such a big impact because you start connecting these dots.

It's like, if you start connecting the dots of how you got to the job that you have, because. Worked at the place before that, because you got the college degree because you did well in high school because when you, when you go back and connect the dots that take you to where you are. Wherever it is, whether it's mental health or whatever, it's just such an interesting map.

And I think that the more we empower young kids to really be aware of their feelings. And I know, I know there's a lot of, you know, guff about this online, about, you know, being too touchy, feely with our kids, but our feelings are important. They, they are, they're what make us human beings. And if we are better able to process them and know how to manage them, They don't come back to haunt us 30 years later and we don't spend the second half of our life unpacking all the broken, damaged pieces that we carried around for the first half.

So I just, I think that's really important and I'm so glad to have someone like her, uh, really being a leader in this field and, and using her sense of humor to bring a light to, I think what is a very, uh, important. 

Zach: [00:36:22] Yeah. And the humor part is really important because there's dark places that you can go to when you're doing the self exploration.

Right. And having the ability to laugh or smile while you're doing it is just absolutely critical. Like, I mean, I remember going through other books that were just like, okay, let's examine your life choices and why you are the way you are. Oh, well, no wonder I am the way I am. And, um, rightfully so. I should be a piece of shit because of all of that stuff.

Like, you know, it's so much more lighthearted and allows you to kind of process through it with, with a smile on your face. 

Jeremy: [00:36:59] That's the thing there's there's and that's where I think a lot of the criticism of, of this sort of work, uh, does have some merit. It's the people that are saying, oh, you know, why do you need to relive the past?

It's in the past? Let it go. I agree with that. You don't need to read it. But you need to, you need to get that shit out because you're going to carry it around. If you don't deal with it and ignoring it is not dealing with it. So if you can find a way perhaps through her book, uh, to do it with a smile, it's a much easier path than the one where you just beat the crap out of yourself until the demon submits and moves on to some other ones.

Zach: [00:37:33] I dunno. I like the ignoring part. That's that's my, that's my job. Right? That's easy work right there. Oh, that bothers me. Let me, let me open up Facebook or Instagram. Let me go do something. 

Jeremy: [00:37:43] Let me just ignore that for another 20 years and just keep ignoring it for 20 more years. 

Zach: [00:37:47] Yeah. Eventually I will be dead and it won't matter.

Right. 

Jeremy: [00:37:51] Exactly. 

Zach: [00:37:52] Exactly. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, let's wrap it up there. This is a super important topic. We could probably talk for another three or four hours about this and I could go on and 

Jeremy: [00:38:03] on. I think we had it with you. If you collect all the mental health episodes that we've done, there's, there's multiple hours there.

This is just the latest and, uh, and a really fun conversation that you guys have. 

Zach: [00:38:13] And I'm, I'm going to throw one more compliment at her because I complimented her through the entire interview. And I think she liked that. So this is an amazing book. She's an amazing person, really happy. We got to talk to her and with that, we'll wrap things up.

So thanks everyone so much for listening. We really, we appreciate all the support that you give us. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on whatever podcast player you use to listen to podcasts. And if you want to learn more about us, you can go to the fitness.com. We've got links to all of our social media, all of our episodes and all the things that we like to do.

In our journey to become healthier on the site. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next Wednesday. 

Jeremy: [00:38:54] See everyone. See I stole your line. 

Kelsey Darragh: [00:38:58] No, this podcast is amazing. It doesn't seem to lack anything, but we need a legal disclaimer. Prior to implementing anything discussed in this podcast is your responsibility to conduct your own research and consult your physician.

You should assume that Jeremy and Zach don't know what they're talking. And they're not liable for any physical or emotional issues that occur directly or indirectly from listening to this podcast.